Q&A with Rob Kuntz

[MajorKookie]

Hi David!

Have you seen my recent post at LOTGD? You might just get a grand chuckle out of it.

All true on WOK; and probably never will be published as that was never the intent. Thanks for explaining more concisely!

[harami2000]

Oh lordie, I have now...

Thanks for the smile, Rob.

OK, add to my previous note that unraveling works which have been built in a highly syncretic manner may sometimes leads to false positives. And other times, not... Nice work on Verdurmir, btw.
It really helps to know the history and context, though, which kinda puts you in a privileged (earned) position IMHO.

[rossik]

i understand now thanks rob and harami!

[MajorKookie]

Glad to help, Rossik. Keep on creating!

[MajorKookie]

Oh lordie, I have now...

Thanks for the smile, Rob.

OK, add to my previous note that unraveling works which have been built in a highly syncretic manner may sometimes leads to false positives. And other times, not... Nice work on Verdurmir, btw.
It really helps to know the history and context, though, which kinda puts you in a privileged (earned) position IMHO.

You of all people I knew would get it and appreciate it. Most will be baffled; and that's fine, as it only matters to those who can understand it, anyway. And that of course points to two very different sides of an ancient coin, especially if you look hard at EGG's afterword and then interpret it in light of what the industry became, and has been ever since that change (I discuss this in depth in my upcoming interview, which is at 3,500 words and climbing due to the intelligent and pointed questions).

Verdurmir's interpretation was only possible because you shared information on this, so your bright colors once again pronounce themselves. From that I have recalled other bits of that Battle, mainly an image of killing that red Dragon, so I believe now that I was on Verdurmir's side in the contest. Of course the other name surfaced (Re: magician's) with interpretation. Very clever, EGG.

As for my earned position, pretty much true. I cared; and when you care about things you tend to remember what you cared for more crisply. But having these bits or abilities, such as they are, are really worthless unless they come out in a way that makes them useful; and that is where I strongly feel that such inquiry as you promote helps in that regard and indeed provides the necessary route for their exposure.

[harami2000]

You of all people I knew would get it and appreciate it. Most will be baffled; and that's fine, as it only matters to those who can understand it, anyway.

Cheers, Rob. Well, IMO appreciation of such subtleties is still most useful for anyone out there who is trying to understand or even to recreate those "origins" - and not just for the Lake Geneva experience, either. Way too easy for a reductionist mindset and/or a single authoritative p.o.v. to become the official written history... as continues largely to be the case in the current context.

And that of course points to two very different sides of an ancient coin, especially if you look hard at EGG's afterword and then interpret it in light of what the industry became, and has been ever since that change (I discuss this in depth in my upcoming interview, which is at 3,500 words and climbing due to the intelligent and pointed questions)

Well that's an awkward one. How rapidly and completely would such concepts have been brought to maturity and fully popularised without that "industrial mechanism"?
I can only briefly describe the host of the early creations. Suffice it that they issued from the divine though still infantile imagination one after the other like bright but trivial bubbles, gaudy with color...

(Or was that Stapledon?
He would have had a field day with http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11837869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , methinks...).

Verdurmir's interpretation was only possible because you shared information on this, so your bright colors once again pronounce themselves. From that I have recalled other bits of that Battle, mainly an image of killing that red Dragon, so I believe now that I was on Verdurmir's side in the contest. Of course the other name surfaced (Re: magician's) with interpretation. Very clever, EGG.

Indeed!
re. "I was on Verdurmir's side in the contest" - why is that no surprise, Rob?! Thanks.

As for my earned position, pretty much true. I cared; and when you care about things you tend to remember what you cared for more crisply. But having these bits or abilities, such as they are, are really worthless unless they come out in a way that makes them useful; and that is where I strongly feel that such inquiry as you promote helps in that regard and indeed provides the necessary route for their exposure.

Whereas an "archaeologist" might presume history to be silent and require their delving to give it voice, perhaps?
Rather too easy to impose one's own biases and presumptions in that case but there's still the need for a balancing act, I suspect, as no one person has a complete picture far less total recall at a 40 year remove (sheesh, I have difficulty remembering at all, far less which year, for events far more recently). You're doing pretty well, though, Rob.
*ducks* Sorry!

But that does emphasise your point about "when you care about things you tend to remember what you cared for more crisply", too.

=

aside: I posted a fun little challenge (echoed here). We briefly touched upon the context that was issued in and whereas that's far from being a "new" discussion - and indeed there are similar from the worldgame side; albeit that's less familiar territory nowadays on a non-CRPG basis - I don't think it's going to stop ticking over any time soon.

[MajorKookie]

You of all people I knew would get it and appreciate it. Most will be baffled; and that's fine, as it only matters to those who can understand it, anyway.

Cheers, Rob. Well, IMO appreciation of such subtleties is still most useful for anyone out there who is trying to understand or even to recreate those "origins" - and not just for the Lake Geneva experience, either. Way too easy for a reductionist mindset and/or a single authoritative p.o.v. to become the official written history... as continues largely to be the case in the current context.

And that of course points to two very different sides of an ancient coin, especially if you look hard at EGG's afterword and then interpret it in light of what the industry became, and has been ever since that change (I discuss this in depth in my upcoming interview, which is at 3,500 words and climbing due to the intelligent and pointed questions)

Well that's an awkward one. How rapidly and completely would such concepts have been brought to maturity and fully popularised without that "industrial mechanism"?
I can only briefly describe the host of the early creations. Suffice it that they issued from the divine though still infantile imagination one after the other like bright but trivial bubbles, gaudy with color...

(Or was that Stapledon?
He would have had a field day with http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11837869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , methinks...).

Verdurmir's interpretation was only possible because you shared information on this, so your bright colors once again pronounce themselves. From that I have recalled other bits of that Battle, mainly an image of killing that red Dragon, so I believe now that I was on Verdurmir's side in the contest. Of course the other name surfaced (Re: magician's) with interpretation. Very clever, EGG.

Indeed!
re. "I was on Verdurmir's side in the contest" - why is that no surprise, Rob?! Thanks.

As for my earned position, pretty much true. I cared; and when you care about things you tend to remember what you cared for more crisply. But having these bits or abilities, such as they are, are really worthless unless they come out in a way that makes them useful; and that is where I strongly feel that such inquiry as you promote helps in that regard and indeed provides the necessary route for their exposure.

Whereas an "archaeologist" might presume history to be silent and require their delving to give it voice, perhaps?
Rather too easy to impose one's own biases and presumptions in that case but there's still the need for a balancing act, I suspect, as no one person has a complete picture far less total recall at a 40 year remove (sheesh, I have difficulty remembering at all, far less which year, for events far more recently). You're doing pretty well, though, Rob.
*ducks* Sorry!

But that does emphasise your point about "when you care about things you tend to remember what you cared for more crisply", too.

=

aside: I posted a fun little challenge (echoed here). We briefly touched upon the context that was issued in and whereas that's far from being a "new" discussion - and indeed there are similar from the worldgame side; albeit that's less familiar territory nowadays on a non-CRPG basis - I don't think it's going to stop ticking over any time soon.

Hey, David. I wish I could quote inline and extract like you do, but every time I try the quotes get messed up and don't work.

Honestly, it's a surprise, really, that anyone has taken an interest in this at all, IMO, outside of the usual psychological and ad infinitum (-nauseum) socio-cultural studies, which though deserving in their own right do not expose all impact areas, especially those I feel that weigh heavier in my estimation (Play, as I have written upon at some length and as related to story and thus the incidence of increase <> decrease according to promoted historical forms, being OPEN as to CLOSED and as predicated by later understoods in rules codification and extreme (written) reliance thereon). The whole relates to outstanding theories which I have studied (Boyd, Spolin, etc), and relates, along the way, to the Brontes, Barker, et al, as we have touched upon. Little did you know then that my library has in excess of twenty books on the Brontes, especially concerning their history and that my most fervent subject in that regard is Emily, but definitely concentrating on their collective childhood/genius-creation periods. Gondal anyone? I've already redrawn a map and taken notes for yet another upcoming project (Ah, the Time!?)

Though I had not wanted to interject "what ifs" into the matter of EGG's afterword and thus project upon this course or that, I can make a strong historical case for adherence to the former course which lacks nothing by comparison to the adopted "mechanistic" one (we will discuss that over tea someday); but in all reality, if TSR had not taken the "premade" route, someone else eventually would have. What is lost through this of course relates back to my own experiences then (and relate to Play and childhood imagination and the squashing and/or regulation of creativity, too, many related subjects too long for here and now), and those of others adopting this route then (and, still, now for that that matter, as not all have succumbed to the production line theory of RPG).

EGG once said that I had one of the best memories he had ever witnessed, and this I suppose for many reasons. I still have great visuals from those days, his house I can describe just about perfectly and have crisp visuals from 13 years of age sitting in his study while he typed, the specific arrangement of the room's items, etc. I have been describing some of these and penning others, with the hope of capturing those moments in pencil via an artist. Perhaps for the memoirs, if not just for the freezing them in reality for others who would find such things of interest. Outside of that, it is funny how the memory works; with me it's like they hide and at times pop out. I don't believe that thoughts impressed in such a manner die, they just take an extended vacation, sometimes permanently.

I commented on the "Maps" topic at Hill Cantons and read the topic on blogs/forums. My opinions vary on this, but perhaps coincide more closely with your own. My own blogging is aimed at inspiring creativity and open thought, covers history and game philosophy and details subjects that I have thought about for some time. It's mostly non-egoistic in the extreme sense of that word, though there is ego involved, for sure, that in itself cannot be divorced from forums or blogs as it's just part of human nature, of course. All posted information rises to the level of the poster and can be expanded upon in conversation. Both mediums allow this to happen in their purist forms. I prefer verbal discussion via phone calls, actually, as the subtleties and nuance are always lost in non-verbal exchanges. Skype's a great medium for that, and it's free in most cases.

[harami2000]

(Play, as I have written upon at some length and as related to story and thus the incidence of increase <> decrease according to promoted historical forms, being OPEN as to CLOSED and as predicated by later understoods in rules codification and extreme (written) reliance thereon). The whole relates to outstanding theories which I have studied (Boyd, Spolin, etc), and relates, along the way, to the Brontes, Barker, et al, as we have touched upon. Little did you know then that my library has in excess of twenty books on the Brontes, especially concerning their history and that my most fervent subject in that regard is Emily, but definitely concentrating on their collective childhood/genius-creation periods. Gondal anyone? I've already redrawn a map and taken notes for yet another upcoming project (Ah, the Time!?)

World enough but insufficient time as I'd misquoted before? Too true, alas.

Yep; it was good to find out that you'd delved further than I had into the Brontë's literary world creation through play.
Throwing those doors OPEN is a skill that appears to be less valued in the age of the prepackaged RPG adventure wherein there is the danger of simply sleepwalking through someone else's "story" whether that be tabletop, CRPG or VRRPG (apologies, but an inevitable nod to Arthur C. Clarke's "The City and the Stars" in which he spots that very "problem" decades ahead of time!). Narrativist roleplayers might not necessarily mind that, I guess.

Given that context, I'll exercise discretion to push the bounds of "fair use" somewhat since the following article extract should IMHO be more widely known in RPG theory (2010 definition?) and history thereof given the date and context (published in Lew Pulsipher's Supernova; July 4th *g*, 1973). The article continues with specific game examples familiar to readers of the 'zine but the last part was never published despite being, I suspect, about to score even more bull's eyes; Lew's comment was "I have a third part on hand, but John puts a very broad interpretation on the word "fantasy", and I'm returning it to ask him to use a true SF or F subject this time, not just a hypothetical or abstract subject.".
Lew, if you're passing by in between updates to your Wiki' page, please let me know why....

Pick a Story, Make a Game - John Riddle Cleaveland [please cite/credit, if quoted/referred to elsewhere]

The final page is misting as your hero gets the girl, finds the treasure, thwarts the villain. Your mind slips back over the story. How would I have done it? That wasn't the right way to do it. If only he had moved here first, instead of there. This ought to make a wonderful game....!
How many times have you finished a good science fiction or fantasy novel and thought, "geez there's a hell of a good potential game here." The next few weeks or months sped by as you relived Das Heldenleben [ed: excellent analogy!]. The glorious haze dissipated slowly as your efforts to string the characters and action into practical reality fell short of the novel's immediacy. The pieces lay scattered about, the novel is loaned to a friend, the mess is pushed further back in the closet and finally you eagerly turn to a new story.
Well, Bucky, cheer up. Lift your chin up off the ground. You can make a game out of any story, just follow these simple principles: take the one goal from the story and state it in terms of the situation (scenario). Make sure the number of sides agrees with the scenario and game action. Keep the action variable enough to remain surprising (only mathematical games should be predictable - that's why they are dull). Forget about incorporating characteristics into a game; the players must have freedom to choose their own poison.
SF&F novels, like most interesting fiction, are all examples of drama. A story is an analogue of real life. So is a game. The difference is in the quality of participation. Whereas drama is shaped by the author, games are shaped, as the game goes on, by the actions of the players. The closest approach these two forms make is in that psychological game known as "role playing". In that game you are assigned (or you pick) a role and a situation. You react to that situation in terms of your role's characteristics, setting goals and developing actions to achieve those goals. In this manner you fill in the gaps in the "game universe" to coincide with your view of the "game reality". The point of that game is one of disclosing your view of reality to clinical observation.
Reality is comprehensibly indescribable. Each person can only see that part of the real world that he can comprehend. This is the basis for fiction and for games. They are simplifications which develop deeper comprehension of their intrinsic realities. A game should be an example of goal-directed behavior [ed: spot the gamist lurking behind the narrativist!]. This behavior is what brings order to external reality. Living has only those goals you set for yourself. The goals structure the "reality" that you comprehend from your senses, simplify it and give it meaning.
Your favorite novel is its author's view of a situational reality. Since it has a built-in viewpoint, it is already structured in a comprehensible format. The necessary elements which are implied in your favoring the story are: a clearly defined situation (including cultural background), a role with which you can identify yourself, and a goal to achieve. These are also the necessary elements of a game. The mechanics of the game depend on the players involved and therefore are variable. [ed: OK, this is back to 1974's approach to RPGing!]
Any story can make a game. The secret lies in tranposing the participation from "observer" to "actor". If the participants have no freedom to redirect the action of the game then it is no game at all. [ed: American board wargaming producers would probably have hated that line!]
..... <clip>

<deliberate blank space>

Though I had not wanted to interject "what ifs" into the matter of EGG's afterword and thus project upon this course or that, I can make a strong historical case for adherence to the former course which lacks nothing by comparison to the adopted "mechanistic" one (we will discuss that over tea someday); but in all reality, if TSR had not taken the "premade" route, someone else eventually would have.

Idealism != $$$
It's also a lot easier to threaten to sue someone over (perceived) violations of mechanistic expressions than those somewhat nebulous philosophical and conceptual frameworks within the "roleplaying" domain. Mind you, that didn't stop Ken St. Andre from being on the receiving end of the latter, too.

Agreed, "someone else eventually would have" is a dead certainty.

What is lost through this of course relates back to my own experiences then (and relate to Play and childhood imagination and the squashing and/or regulation of creativity, too, many related subjects too long for here and now), and those of others adopting this route then (and, still, now for that that matter, as not all have succumbed to the production line theory of RPG).

Many in the self-styled OSR have, whether by deliberate design or otherwise. That is ironic.

EGG once said that I had one of the best memories he had ever witnessed, and this I suppose for many reasons. I still have great visuals from those days, his house I can describe just about perfectly and have crisp visuals from 13 years of age sitting in his study while he typed, the specific arrangement of the room's items, etc. I have been describing some of these and penning others, with the hope of capturing those moments in pencil via an artist. Perhaps for the memoirs, if not just for the freezing them in reality for others who would find such things of interest. Outside of that, it is funny how the memory works; with me it's like they hide and at times pop out. I don't believe that thoughts impressed in such a manner die, they just take an extended vacation, sometimes permanently.

Yes, that would be good flavor for those memoirs, IMHO. Just like those wallhangings from TSR 1981/2 speak rather more loudly about what it was like for certain individuals to work there compared with anything that might've been published in The Dragon.
Thanks in advance, as ever, for any such.

Always a good idea to "catch" those thoughts on the way out, those, since they /can/ fly if not reinforced once recalled.

I commented on the "Maps" topic at Hill Cantons and read the topic on blogs/forums. My opinions vary on this, but perhaps coincide more closely with your own. My own blogging is aimed at inspiring creativity and open thought, covers history and game philosophy and details subjects that I have thought about for some time. It's mostly non-egoistic in the extreme sense of that word, though there is ego involved, for sure, that in itself cannot be divorced from forums or blogs as it's just part of human nature, of course. All posted information rises to the level of the poster and can be expanded upon in conversation. Both mediums allow this to happen in their purist forms. I prefer verbal discussion via phone calls, actually, as the subtleties and nuance are always lost in non-verbal exchanges. Skype's a great medium for that, and it's free in most cases.

Well, I'm hunting another copy of Tony's book for Allan so I might as well add yet one more. Apologies but I only just gave away a spare that I'd picked up for that reason a few months back.
Out of interest (motivated curiosity), did Gary deliberate not refer to the "UK scene" that much?

My own post that I was referring to is directly above your own but a good topic to read and feedback on as are many others over there! (Nice work, Chris, for showing how a blog /can/ be run in a positive manner with generally disengaged ego).

[ckutalik]

I commented on the "Maps" topic at Hill Cantons and read the topic on blogs/forums. My opinions vary on this, but perhaps coincide more closely with your own. My own blogging is aimed at inspiring creativity and open thought, covers history and game philosophy and details subjects that I have thought about for some time. It's mostly non-egoistic in the extreme sense of that word, though there is ego involved, for sure, that in itself cannot be divorced from forums or blogs as it's just part of human nature, of course. All posted information rises to the level of the poster and can be expanded upon in conversation. Both mediums allow this to happen in their purist forms. I prefer verbal discussion via phone calls, actually, as the subtleties and nuance are always lost in non-verbal exchanges. Skype's a great medium for that, and it's free in most cases.

Well, I'm hunting another copy of Tony's book for Allan so I might as well add yet one more. Apologies but I only just gave away a spare that I'd picked up for that reason a few months back.
Out of interest (motivated curiosity), did Gary deliberate not refer to the "UK scene" that much?

My own post that I was referring to is directly above your own but a good topic to read and feedback on as are many others over there! (Nice work, Chris, for showing how a blog /can/ be run in a positive manner with generally disengaged ego).

Dunno, I posted a happy birthday message--to myself--on the blog yesterday, so I'm not sure how much I can vouch for my disengaged ego .

On the Keep on the Borderlands/Hyborian map question, I should have labelled the map part of the post more clearly as a half-joke. I was making fun a little of my own (and other bloggers') tendency to speculate pointlessly on matters decades-old.

BTW noticed that the Society of Ancients has re-released the Bath campaign book on Lulu. Every self-respecting wargaming enthusiast should pick up a copy.

If I can successfully project even a portion of the head-spinning verbal conversation with Rob in the final interview product, I think people are in for a very interesting read.

[MajorKookie]

Boy David, we're really going here. The John Liddle read was good. Is Lew still active in Dippy or other these days? The basics he discusses I cover (and I mentioned to Chris and Allan) in a short book I've titled "Boiling Point." It's at roughly 6,000 words and I hope to finish it and an adventure with Kyrinn as soon as I have the Machine Level wrapped. It goes to more depth and breadth than what is covered by Liddle. I wonder if he published the third part somewhere?

The remainder must wait for now as I am readying for a phone call with Chris

*Waves @ Chris*

R.

[Timeshadows]

> perks up at mention of my name and writing responsibilties <
> slinks off to strangle uncooperative computer <
> weeps and gnashes teeth <

Oh, Hi, Rob.

[MajorKookie]

Hiya Timeshadows. Btw: Is your icon a prototypical Mountainous Ice Bear??

Yes, and how about we start a new company and online magazine too?? Suggestion just went out to Scott S. for the magazine and since Chris has 20 years journalistic experience (and is the best interviewer I have run across, btw) the 'zine seems a natural.

Gonna take a short nap and then post on the interview and what-not.

Do ask a question or two while you're here, folks, as that at least keeps up appearances in the Q&A form...

RJK

[harami2000]

Dunno, I posted a happy birthday message--to myself--on the blog yesterday, so I'm not sure how much I can vouch for my disengaged ego

On the Keep on the Borderlands/Hyborian map question, I should have labelled the map part of the post more clearly as a half-joke. I was making fun a little of my own (and other bloggers') tendency to speculate pointlessly on matters decades-old.

Speculation is fun... and necessary, IMHO. Sometimes it yields direct results/links, other times common backgrounds, other times nothing at all. Thanks again for that blog post.

Losing control of one's speculations (whether published in a blog, newspaper or book) where someone else interprets them as facts, passes those on and those eventually get churned by Wiki' and accepted/reprinted as "truth" rather than even as "received wisdom" is a non-trivial danger nowadays unfortunately.
Replacing the "thesis, hypothesis, synthesis" cycle (peer review optional) with "someone else's speculation, forward, selectively edit, exaggerate, copypaste, recycle, fact" doesn't sit easily here.

BTW noticed that the Society of Ancients has re-released the Bath campaign book on Lulu. Every self-respecting wargaming enthusiast should pick up a copy.

Every RPG gaming enthusiast, too.
*nods* => http://www.soa.org.uk/store/store_publications/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , but probably still also worth picking up the 1973 publication to ensure context if delving into the history, unless absolutely sure of the nature of the current compilation. (Admittedly one of those questions I'd been meaning to ask them... ). Definitely good value for money, either way.

If I can successfully project even a portion of the head-spinning verbal conversation with Rob in the final interview product, I think people are in for a very interesting read.

Sounds like that was fun. Exorcised any old ghosts in passing?

[harami2000]

Boy David, we're really going here.

Didn't want to be hogging your thread too much, so I spread out a bit. (Yes; it's a trap - well, many traps, actually )

The John Liddle read was good. ... The basics he discusses I cover (and I mentioned to Chris and Allan) in a short book I've titled "Boiling Point." It's at roughly 6,000 words and I hope to finish it and an adventure with Kyrinn as soon as I have the Machine Level wrapped. It goes to more depth and breadth than what is covered by Liddle.

Will be interesting to read where that goes and compare/contrast, whether from a reconstructed 1973 viewpoint, 2010 retrospective or otherwise.
Likewise looking forward to those settings/adventures, not least given your positive comments from NTRPGCon on Kyrinn's work (another that I missed there, I know).

Is Lew still active in Dippy or other these days? .... I wonder if he published the third part somewhere?

Difficult to know whether John might've taken umbrage to being asked to rewrite, or actually did so: the publication dates of Lew's 'zines begin to get a bit patchy not long after. Maybe that was shuffled under a stack of papers when D&D was published?
Had been meaning to touch base - along with 1,001 other leads - but had abrogated that to someone who knew him in the mid '70s down around Games Workshop-land.

(n.b., aside, the (unpublished) Arneson letter noted on http://pulsiphergames.com/lew%27s_autobiography.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; an indeterminate time before John Snider's pointed out recently).

[MajorKookie]

Well Lew has two blogs, worth reading one article there; more later.

RP as a social-play form developed in organized play where we have rules. Playgrounds/schools, no doubt where these were supervised and rules were made and adjudicated by leaders or teachers, and long before, where there were assumed democratic procedures instituted by children in unsupervised groups. You're a pirate, I'm a Captain from the HMS Invincible, you have to get me and me, you. What "get" meant was defined (tagged, touched with a stick, etc.) and so on. The variations and situations and introductions of players and redefinitions of understoods are endless. There are books on this--re: Handbook of Games by Neva Boyd, for instance, and today ever since the adoption of her theories, many more that expand on them.

My bet? Started in a pre-civ hunting party where they practiced playing out the herd and the hunters... Good as any...

[bombasticus]

Hi Rob --

Quick one here piggybacking your harami conversation: do you remember anything about the "Midgard" games? At this point, they're often simply described as a "play-by-mail variant" or confused with the early German rpg of the same name, but fragmentary references in White Dwarf and the Judges Guild Journal seem to point to these worlds as an entirely different style of play closer to a Braunstein or Castles & Crusades. Just hoping you might've run across these guys, maybe in the fanzines or via any correspondence with early groups in Pasadena or overseas. Thanks.

[harami2000]

I'll just listen in, if y'both don't mind.

[bombasticus]

I'll just listen in, if y'both don't mind.

I missed that! For all I know this is just reinventing the Irish deer again for you, but it's an avenue I've never been able to pin down personally so hope you'll be patient.

Love the tactic of classifying these as "worldgames" and of course your nod to the "syncretic" elements of any narrative involving balrog armies, flying centaurs and such. (Much less telepaths, "lawful werebears and Japanese fighting-men," God knows.)

[MajorKookie]

Hi Rob --

Quick one here piggybacking your harami conversation: do you remember anything about the "Midgard" games? At this point, they're often simply described as a "play-by-mail variant" or confused with the early German rpg of the same name, but fragmentary references in White Dwarf and the Judges Guild Journal seem to point to these worlds as an entirely different style of play closer to a Braunstein or Castles & Crusades. Just hoping you might've run across these guys, maybe in the fanzines or via any correspondence with early groups in Pasadena or overseas. Thanks.

Hi Bombasticus! May the Octemple of Piers Pratchett preserve you in lean times!

You know the greatest thing about being so busy (or away) these so many years is that I do miss things, Do you mean these chaps (Midgard): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midgard_(role-playing_game" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) ??

If so I have no knowledge of them (or similar if not). But that's the great thing about discussion and research; no one man is an island (unless of course he be stranded on said island for many years).

And with my memoirs cooking I seemingly have less time for research; David is way ahead of me there, and my concentration in D&D/RPG is in that area I feel is most important and is likewise endangered these days, which is full-out extemporaneous play,now a crippled art at best, so I deem. My angle is in tracking and explaining where it evolved from and because of that to examine its honored past and why it is the most interesting and creative particle of RPG.

Back to Midgard; the first impression I got from the wiki is that it appears in ways similar to Savage Worlds, but I am just now waking up so that feeling might in fact relate only to a lack of ingested coffee.

I sure would like to hear more about the game if someone were to post a topic on it... In between thanks for the question, please excuse my rambling, and do ask more questions if/when they seize you.

*Waves at David*

PS--I'm glad you found parts of my Broadside amusing, Bombasticus. I am always looking for angles, so if you find one, let me know. Remember Schiump da Orc from Dragon #13 (and those TSR inter-office employee fliers (name??), David)? I'm going to have his cousin interview the Orlando Skolarlee Review's head-"priest", Jimmie Cracked Corn... Let the good times "role", -- RJK

[MajorKookie]

@ David... "employee fliers (name??), David)?": 'Strategic Preview' so I now recollect. I sure wish I had saved mine from those early days...

[bombasticus]

Thanks! Sorry to pester you on this fusty topic, but "motivated curiosity" about the early UK scene re-sparked my own question marks.

Far as I can tell, most latter-day Skolars are confusing the German commercial rpg product with a more anarchic world-driven hobby of the same name. It looks like a cross between an APA and a C&C Society type of pursuit.

http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/wha ... tml#others" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am but an egg, so the best "period" description I've seen was in WD 2 with a follow-up letter in WD 8. There was also an effusive letter in JGJ 15 that went into great detail about flying centaurs, Balrog armies, magic swords and so on that might have been referring to an earlier article, but my JGJs are in storage. Tell you what, I'll gather my own resources if harami doesn't beat me to it (much less into submission) and report back.

Poor old Schlump. Just not serious enough to survive long in the "industry!"

[MajorKookie]

Hey Bombasticus. Having another intelligent and inquisitive soul is never a bother, so chime in whenever you feel inclined. I've in fact agreed to be "pestered," so there.

Yes, Schlump, as imagined, created and infiltrated by my friend David C. Sutherland III, needs be resurrected. I've been meaning to do so for years. Now Andy Taylor will no doubt do a good homage to him (in illustrating), having been created by a fellow artist who he appreciates.

Happy Hunting on all related as you noted. I'll be here or there. David and I seem to have taken what was in e-mails and gone public. Perhaps it was my Broadside that stirred me some, how about you Harami??

*Mental note: must type 1,000 words on the Machine Level today.*

Cheers! -- RJK

[KewlMarine32]

How much input did you have when Kings & Things was released and did you read the rulebook before it was released?

[MajorKookie]

Input is somewhat a vague term; I originated the concept for its proto-form, King of the Tabletop (in fact on file the Library of Congress Copyrights office as: "Kings, Towers & Treasures"). Tom & I playtested and amended, published in Dragon #77, then it was later sent on to West End who gave input and then the new title. I saw the final rules but not the rule book.

Hope this helps. -- RJK

[KewlMarine32]

I was just asking because the players who had it a few days ago were having issues with the rules.

Not blaming you for anything but it is surprising that a lot of these games coming out today are providing rule books with clarity issues.

From what I understand, i am supposed to be demo'ing the game at the next con in January here in Bellevue...

[MajorKookie]

Righto! Rules issues, heh, that's strange news. Tom Wham (contactable: http://www.tomwham.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) is best contacted for any new rules that found purchase in the current version, as I've pretty much deferred to him in this matter as he has been doing all of the direct interface with various publishers. Are you speaking about the new version, BTW, recently released through Z-Man Games? In either case I'd query Tom, as he is up to date with happenings on that front.

Cheers! -- RJK

[KewlMarine32]

Are you speaking about the new version, BTW, recently released through Z-Man Games?

Yes, that is the one...

[ckutalik]

Yes, and how about we start a new company and online magazine too?? Suggestion just went out to Scott S. for the magazine and since Chris has 20 years journalistic experience (and is the best interviewer I have run across, btw) the 'zine seems a natural.

Do ask a question or two while you're here, folks, as that at least keeps up appearances in the Q&A form...

Now that would be a hella quirky, iconoclastic publication that I would be thrilled to read--let alone help come together. Glad you think so, Rob, I was worried that a decade behind the line editor's desk has made me too rusty.

Here's an actual question: what wargames (rules and authors) of the 60s and early 70s were influential on the Lake Geneva crew in the early days? Are there specific things you can point to as being particularly influential?

[MajorKookie]

@ Chris: Couldn't save the question for tomorrow's phone call, eh?

Featherstone was a major influence, he dominated the field at that time, of course. Influence is of course non-pin-pointable to a frozen time reference in many cases. Well's Little Wars and Fletcher Pratt's naval rules were influential but little played (that is, much http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 1825396630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). Column, Line and Square (Fred Vietmeyer). Jeff Perren (Chainmail, Cavaliers & Roundheads, and those rules for refighting the Battle of Rorke's Drift with 30mm 'flats' which EGG & I played out as the defenders vs. the Zulus (Perren) attacking).
Strategos-N (Dave Wesley) was in the background for the LGTSA but still there and interesting. Tuckers and Reeses Fast Rules (from Tractics, and with EGG in that); Tony Morales "Victory at Sea" (quite popular, still have those and Pratt's rules as compliment); all the AH and some SPI line (mostly AH, such as Gettysburgh (Hex), Afrika Korps,
Stalingrand, D-Day, Waterloo, Battle of the Bulge, Midway, et al. Oh, and Twenty Questions, card games, Stratego, Chess, Japanese Chess, Scrabble, Mah-Jong, 3M Bookcase Games (many and varied there) and maybe we even snuck in hide-n-seek on occasion... And that's the short list.

[ckutalik]

@ Chris: Couldn't save the question for tomorrow's phone call, eh?

Featherstone was a major influence, he dominated the field at that time, of course. Influence is of course non-pin-pointable to a frozen time reference in many cases. Well's Little Wars and Fletcher Pratt's naval rules were influential but little played (that is, much http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 1825396630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). Column, Line and Square (Fred Vietmeyer). Jeff Perren (Chainmail, Cavaliers & Roundheads, and those rules for refighting the Battle of Rorke's Drift with 30mm 'flats' which EGG & I played out as the defenders vs. the Zulus (Perren) attacking).
Strategos-N (Dave Wesley) was in the background for the LGTSA but still there and interesting. Tuckers and Reeses Fast Rules (from Tractics, and with EGG in that); Tony Morales "Victory at Sea" (quite popular, still have those and Pratt's rules as compliment); all the AH and some SPI line (mostly AH, such as Gettysburgh (Hex), Afrika Korps,
Stalingrand, D-Day, Waterloo, Battle of the Bulge, Midway, et al. Oh, and Twenty Questions, card games, Stratego, Chess, Japanese Chess, Scrabble, Mah-Jong, 3M Bookcase Games (many and varied there) and maybe we even snuck in hide-n-seek on occasion... And that's the short list.

Patience has never been my strongest quality h Thanks for the answer all the same. I have been re-reading Donald Featherstone's book on Solo Wargaming recently and has me thinking about this era again.