[C&C] House Rule: Spell Variant

[serleran]

All zero-level spells are eliminated. Instead, a single spell, known universally as "Cantrip" is added to all spell lists, as a first level spell. When cast, this spell has a duration of 24 hours, with a target of personal (affecting only the casting character), and allows the caster to further use any minor spell effect equivalent to the current listed zero-level spells, in any sequence, up to their Intelligence score (for arcane casters) or Wisdom score (for divine casters.) Cantrip must be studied, and learned as normal for those who require such, and it must be prepared as normal. Cross-casting is possible (that is, a Cleric can cast a Wizard's zero-level spell effect) but such uses of Cantrip count as double (that is, one such use counts as two, from the total allowed.)

Oh well, just trying to go with a more Unearthed Arcana approach. Let me know what you think.

[Grimaryl Atyar]

sounds good to me. After 2nd level I have never had a PC cast a cantrip anyways, at leat in combat. So simplifying the use of zero levels spells would work well for me.

[PeelSeel2]

I was considering doing away with all 'spells per level'. A character can cast their level in spells per day plus class prime attribute modifier. A character can 'know' up to their class prime score in spells. These spells they 'switch out' by studying their spell book per normal study rules or by praying. A character can cast a new power level of spell every two levels from level one.

For example, a 5th level wizard with Int of 18 could cast 8 spells in a day, and can cast Catrips, first, second and third level spells. He could 'know' 18 spells, and can 'switch' these out with other spells in his/her spell book. He could cast any of the 18 'known' spells up to his limit that day.

My main objective is to reduce at higher levels the amount per day spell casters can cast, and also to make it more intuitive, with also giving spellcasters a little more diversity in what they can cast.

[gideon_thorne]

I have a funky idea about just having a mage of sorts aquire individual spells as inate abilties over time. The 'cost' in xp would be that of the level needed to aquire the spell. This ability would be usable at will.

[Grimaryl Atyar]

I don't quit understand your idea Peter. Could you flesh it out a bit more?

[gideon_thorne]

I don't quite understand your idea Peter. Could you flesh it out a bit more?

Simple. A spellcaster would aquire spells as they go along by spending XP on the desired spell. The class in question would have some other types of inate abilties to shift the focus of the class a bit. Read Magic and Detect Magic for example. And perhaps some sort of background skill abilities involving legend lore or arcane esoterica.

As the character aquires experience, they can spend it on learning to shape their inate power. This would take the form of learning to cast a given type of spell as an aquired power.

No spell components or such, just force of will. Maybe operating as a type of con check to cause the effect. I havent worked that bit out yet.

The character level then becomes the effective level at which the spell works. The cost of any given spell is the XP required to gain the level to cast it.

[Grimaryl Atyar]

So you are saying it is essentially like the sorceror in 3E and it buys spells with its xp's and won't need material components? This is still going to go up in levels as a standard class does?

[Julian Grimm]

I did something similar by folding all zero levels into the first spell level. So far it's worked fine but I do like Serleran's idea about bringing back the cantrip spell.

[gideon_thorne]

So you are saying it is essentially like the sorceror in 3E and it buys spells with its xp's and won't need material components? This is still going to go up in levels as a standard class does?

Of a sort. Some folks like to model their mages on Vancian magic. I was thinking something along the lines of Charmed.

I have an article I am working up for the Crusader. I suspect my idea will be fully realised by then. ^_^

[The GM]

I was considering doing away with all 'spells per level'. A character can cast their level in spells per day plus class prime attribute modifier. A character can 'know' up to their class prime score in spells. These spells they 'switch out' by studying their spell book per normal study rules or by praying. A character can cast a new power level of spell every two levels from level one.

For example, a 5th level wizard with Int of 18 could cast 8 spells in a day, and can cast Catrips, first, second and third level spells. He could 'know' 18 spells, and can 'switch' these out with other spells in his/her spell book. He could cast any of the 18 'known' spells up to his limit that day.

My main objective is to reduce at higher levels the amount per day spell casters can cast, and also to make it more intuitive, with also giving spellcasters a little more diversity in what they can cast.

I ran a campaign with something similar to this in 1E/2E... Basically a spell-point system where the control is on what's known/accessible. It turned out that mages and priests (more mages though) got more powerful because the spell they needed for a given situation was always to hand. By allowing any 18 spells, 0-level (except detect magic) would "power up" to first level, and cascade up from there, netting more high-level spells over the course of a day.

If it suits the power level of your game, some players love a system like this. After a single campaign though, the serious wizard players started asking me to go back to the Vancian system because they prefered to have to work for it.

Who was I to say "no, I want it to go easy on the characters?"


Don.

[Zudrak]

Peter, your idea seems similar to the "Elements of Magic" supplement I purchased from EN World a few years back. I'll have to dig that out of my "RPG Vault" and see if it is easily portable to C&C. Seeing as it is based on the d20 SRD, I would think it should not be too hard to make it fit.

I like the idea, BTW.

[gideon_thorne]

Ive not a clue. I never saw the book. My thoughts tend to stray away from a linear aquisition of spells. Instead its more of a series of either related or unrelated inate powers. Ultimately I think I would limit it to something like the characters level plus their intellegence mod. One could have all fire based powers. Some sort of telekenesis emphasis, movement powers, whatever?

Peter, your idea seems similar to the "Elements of Magic" supplement I purchased from EN World a few years back. I'll have to dig that out of my "RPG Vault" and see if it is easily portable to C&C. Seeing as it is based on the d20 SRD, I would think it should not be too hard to make it fit.

I like the idea, BTW.

[Zudrak]

It sounds impressive. I'll keep an eye out for developments on this.

The Elements, IIRC, allowed a magic-user (arcane or divine) the ability to choose a certain number of elements and gain Magic Points as he increases in level. The "spell level" merely means how intense the effect of a certain spell is.

If someone else here is familiar with Elements of Magic, feel free to set me straight if I am in error. I may use that system of magic (yours or Elements of Magic) if only because it seems more like the fantasy magic seen in LotR and The Hobbit, as well as other works, than the Vancian magic system. Of course, if the party wizard (AKA Mrs. Zudrak) decides she doesn't want to abandon the current system, then it shall remain as is.

[gideon_thorne]

*smiles* If you think of the methodology of my idea as something akin to a magical background skill, you would be far closer than this Elements system. ^_^

The Elements, IIRC, allowed a magic-user (arcane or divine) the ability to choose a certain number of elements and gain Magic Points as he increases in level. The "spell level" merely means how intense the effect of a certain spell is.

[Zudrak]

*smiles* If you think of the methodology of my idea as something akin to a magical background skill, you would be far closer than this Elements system. ^_^

Ok. Keep us posted. If it is akin to a background skill system (per CZ, perhaps?), then it sounds like a magic-user would be spending points (XP or otherwise) to increase his magical prowess. I like that idea and would love to see its implentation.