[OD&D] Halenar Frosthelm: The Ultimate Paladin Thread

[ThePerilousDreamer]

This is my Ultimate Paladin Thread, I will refer to a number of other threads that have helped my come to my current take on Paladins. I am going to start by referring this this thread that I posted back on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:40 am [OD&D] Paladins of the Mace & Paladins of the Sword. It was an interesting experiment and I got to do some play testing of the idea.

I will repeat the information here and then will proceed from there:

I posted this at my blog and I am posting it here for comments, suggestions, tweaks, etc. I am not sure how to post tables here, so for the tables just hit the link provided. I edited and added to the Greyhawk supplement text. This is for an OD&D game without using anything outside the original 3 books except for house ruled things like this. Hit dice are all d6 and all weapons do a base d6.

The way that I run Paladins in my campaign is as follows here: Human fighting men and human clerics who have a Charisma score of 17 or greater may become Paladins at fourth level IF THEY ARE LAWFUL from the beginning of play for that character. This applies to both male and female characters. They just always do lawful deeds, since any chaotic (or evil) act will revoke the status of paladin hood, and it can never be regained. Fighting Men become Paladins of the Sword and Clerics become Paladins of the Mace.

Paladins have a number of very powerful aids in their continual quest for good and these are a bit different for the two types of paladins.

First of all - Paladins of the Mace: They can "lay on hands" to heal wounds or cure diseases but only in others, they cannot heal their own wounds this way; however, they are not subject to disease. They heal two points of damage for every level the paladin has attained, once per day at 4th level, twice per day at 6th level and thrice per day at 8th level and so on. They can cure the common minor diseases in groups of people twice per day at 4th level and so on as for healing damage. They can cure one serious disease per level attained twice per day and so on as for healing damage.

To see the tables associated with Paladins go to this link: http://sites.google.com/site/theorigina ... -the-sword

As you may note from the table, Paladins of the Mace continue to accrue, albeit more slowly, and use cleric spells as they gain Paladin levels. Paladins of the Mace that are 8th level and above gain the ability (separate from spells) to dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters, and such) by ordering it so, and they detect all chaos, as well as evil, at a range of 6". They also gain the ability to see in the absence of light.

Second of all we will look at Paladins of the Sword: They can "lay on hands" to heal wounds or cure diseases but only in others, they cannot heal their own wounds this way; however, they are not subject to disease. They heal two points of damage for every level the paladin has attained, once per day at 4th level, twice per day at 8th level and so on. They can cure the common minor diseases in groups of people twice per day at 4th level and so on as for healing damage. They can cure one serious disease per level attained twice per day and so on as for healing damage.

Paladins of the Sword do not get any clerical spells, as do Paladins of the Mace. Paladins of the Sword that are 8th level and above gain the ability (separate from spells) to dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters, and such) by ordering it so, and they detect all chaos, as well as evil, at a range of 6". They also gain the ability to see in the absence of light.

Paladins with any type of "Holy Sword" or Holy Mace are almost completely immune to all magic. Paladins of the Sword may choose to obtain a horse, which is powerfully gifted, but not more than one per 10 years of game time, so if it is killed it is not automatically replaced. The paladin’s Horse is a Heavy Horse, with Armor Class IV, moves 18" has 8 Hit Dice and is highly intelligent. Paladins of the Mace may choose to obtain a mule, which is powerfully gifted, but not more than one per 10 years of game time, so if it is killed it is not automatically replaced. The paladin’s Mule is a Riding Mule, with Armor Class V, moves 21" has 6 Hit Dice and is highly intelligent. All paladin saving throws for Death Ray/Poison/All Wands including Polymorph or Paralization/Stone/Dragon Breath/Staves & Spells 10% better rounded up than the base class.

Paladins will never be allowed to possess more than two magical items, this does not include armor, shield and up to 4 weapons that normally use. They will give away all treasure that they win, save that which is necessary to maintain themselves, their men, and a modest castle. Paladins may not obtain a castle until they reach 10th level. Gifts must be to the poor or to charitable or religious institutions, i.e. not to some other character played in the game. A paladin's stronghold cannot be above 200,000 gold pieces in total cost, and no more than 200 men can be retained to guard it. Paladins normally prefer to dwell with lawful princes or patriarchs, but circumstances may prevent this. They will form strong alliances only with lawful characters. However, they may be found in parties with Neutral Characters since most adventurers are Neutral, they will, however, not associate at all with Chaotic characters. Paladins are recognized wherever they go as constituting a legitimate authority of Judge, Jury and Executioner. Once they reach 10th level, even Kings are subject to their decisions. Yes, these are powerful, however, I am of the mind that they are balanced with powerful Magic-Users, in addition they are very limited in how much magic and cash they can have. As noted in the tables, the experience requirements for advancing are quite steep compared to the base classes, so that balances out the power somewhat and allows the base classes to advance much faster.

This is my take on Paladins which I am near being able to start play testing once one player advances a bit farther. Note that Paladins of the Mace are better healers and can use Cleric spells, along with being powerful fighters, there is still value in being a straight Cleric since you are not limited in magic such as scrolls and in coin, you advance much faster and are likely to have a Paladin seek you out once you become a Patriarch. Likewise, Paladins of the Sword are powerful fighters but very limited in magic and coin, and straight fighters advance much faster and if Lawful may have a Paladin seek you out once you become a Lord. Although paladins can build small castles they are more likely to forgo that if there is a Lawful Lord or Patriarch they can ally with.

One objection raised was:

Your lay on hands and cure disease is a lot more potent imo than the normal, even with the 'they cannot use it on themselves'. And what do you mean by
"Paladins with any type of "Holy Sword" or Holy Mace are almost completely immune to all magic"

To which I replied:

The direct quote from Greyhawk Supplement I is as follows "Paladins with any form of "Holy Sword" are virtually immune to all magic (see MONSTERS & TREASURE, MAGIC & TREASURE, Swords)." If you go to Volume 2 Monsters & Treasure there is no clarifying info specifically about "Holy Sword" so Gygax left it up to the ref as to how complete "virtually immune" is. I left the wording essentially as it was so as to leave it up to the individual ref to tailor that to his or her vision of a paladin and how it works with their campaign.

I hope the experience required for advancement offsets the power potency. Also it reflects in my campaign the rarity of clerics to begin with as PC's and how rare a Paladin of either type will be.

So this was my starting point nearly 5 years ago and in my next post I will start discussing what has happened since then and the new ideas I have looked at and then my current revised write up that is currently in development.



Disclaimer: Please note that anything I post in any thread I create here in the Workshop is solely intended to illuminate what I do IMCs and, where applicable, the reasoning behind it. Anything I post here in the Workshop, is not intended to comment in anyway on anything you do in your campaign or on any opinion or belief that you may or may not hold in regard to anything, but to solely and exclusively be my opinion as it relates to my campaigns and game worlds alone.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

Paladins, they stir so many emotions! Some of us love them and some of us hate them. It seems to me that most of the objections come down to them being played as Lawful Stupid and being a real pain to the rest of the party. IMO this is not how they were designed, nor how they were intended to be played. I have heard all kinds of stories and many of them seem to be more the ref forcing modern real world restrictions on the Paladin and from that forcing repugnant behavior on the Paladin and then the player taking those ref fostered misconceptions forward into other games.

OD&D -Greyhawk Supplement I

Charisma scores of 17 or greater by fighters indicate the possibility of Paladin status IF THEY ARE LAWFUL from the commencement of play for that character. If such fighters elect to they can then become Paladins, always doing lawful deeds, for any chaotic act will immediately revoke the status of paladin, and it can never be regained. The Paladin has a number of very powerful aids in his continual seeking for good: He can "lay on his hands" to cure wounds or diseases in others (two points of damage for every level the Paladin has attained, one disease per five levels, either function performable but one per day). Paladins are not themselves subject to disease. They have a 10% higher saving throw against all forms of attack (excluding melee). Paladins of 8th level and above dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters, and the like) simply by ordering it hence, and they detect all evil at a range of 6". Paladins with any form of "Holy Sword" are virtually immune to all magic (see MONSTERS & TREASURE, MAGIC & TREASURE, Swords). The Paladin may at any time he chooses obtain a horse which is likewise gifted, but he may never obtain a second within ten years of the first, so if one is killed it is not automatically replaced. The Paladin's horse is a Heavy, with Armor Class 5, Moves 18", has 5+1 Hit Dice, and high intelligence. Paladins will never be allowed to possess more than four magical items, excluding the armor, shield and up to four weapons they normally use. They will give away all treasure that they win, save that which is necessary to maintain themselves, their men, and a modest castle. Gifts must be to the poor or to charitable or religious institutions, i.e. not to some other character played in the game. A Paladin's stronghold cannot be above 200.000 gold pieces in total cost, and no more than 200 men can be retained to guard it. Paladins normally prefer to dwell with lawful princes or patriarchs, but circumstances may prevent this. They will associate only with lawful characters.

Now the original three alignment system is Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic. Paladins must always do lawful deeds. Any Chaotic act will revoke the status of paladin and it can never be regained. It would seem to follow that Neutral behavior would be problematic. The main point with alignment and Paladins is that that the ref should remember not to require Lawful (Lawful Good) to conform to modern 21st century political correctness i.e. Lawful Stupid. Paladins should be able to play smart,tough and pragmatic. They should be able to make good tactical and strategic decisions and plans at least within the abilities of the player. Again for the fun of all, the ref should not enforce Lawful Stupid behavior limits on the player and the player should not be a pain to the rest of the party in the majority of situations.

Now as to where the rubber meets the road IMO here are a few things, one I as the ref do not repeatedly throw in moral quandaries for the players. I don't do it because I don't find it fun and a lot of players also do not find it fun. In addition, IMO throwing in moral quandaries especially repeatedly for Paladins, rangers, or clerics it just a form of "Gotcha" and I don't do that with my players. Also consider some of the following I have culled from a number of other threads.

Read RtRH's Essay on Paladins
This essay if full of some awesome ideas about how to run a Paladin and prior to reading this I had adopted in one of my campaigns the idea of between one and three Paladins per continent depending on the size of the continent. The idea of one per god is intriguing.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but have a gander at Three Hearts and Three Lions, by Poul Anderson. I tend to model any Paladins I play after Holger du Danske, and try to encourage those who play in my campaigns to do the same.

Now when I say "after Holger..." of course I don't mean "act like a 20th century person stuck in a fantastic europe, but rather look at the actions he undertook, and how he undertook them. Holger (and more importantly, the other Paladin in the book, Carahue) was not a sword-wielding killbot with the "IF IT STARTS WITH CHAOTIC OR ENDS WITH EVIL, I CHOP IT!" punch card inserted. They're shrewd warriors with an eye to doing the "right thing". In Holger's view the only time there ever was a "gray area" was when dealing with Morgan leFay, and he paid for his indecision.

He was definitely NOT above using trickery on the less bright of his enemies to carry the day, nor trading a little to get supplies, etc.

If you've never read the book, I really heartily recommend it as it really and truly gives what I think is the best view of a Paladin's mindset.

There's a couple of points that have been raised in this thread, and I apologize to those who brought them up; I reckon I should copy and paste and quote but I'm feeling lazy today...anyway the various issues I wanted to address were virtue, religion and other players seeking to corrupt the paladin.

In order, regarding the paladin's virtue, I believe someone mentioned that it's tough to play paladins because you have to play a "perfect" character - someone who is totally virtuous. I don't agree with that. Now put down your torches and pitchforks! I'm not suggesting that you play a paladin as a lawful good fighter with superpowers. Rather, that a paladin is someone who constantly strives to be totally virtuous. There may be times when he's struggling to do his best but is stuck in a no-win situation. When a lesser of two evils must be chosen. Ever wonder how A Paladin In Hell ended up in such a dire situation? I mean, no right thinking soldier of $DEITY would willingly enter hell, would he? But what if it was enter hell, or the whole village dies? Or city? Or Prime Material Plane? No, a paladin strives to do his or her best. The DM, as the universal demiurge, keeps watch over those efforts and makes a note when there's "slippage". Referencing Three Hearts and Three Lions (again!), there were a few occasions when through a lack of righteousness, Holger found himself in a tight spot or two and on more than a single occasion face-to-face with Morgan le Fey. But he always bounced back. Never took that one step over the last line. A temporary loss of his holy abilities? Sure! Finding himself unable to ride his warhorse or bear his sword? Nope!

I think the next point was succinctly covered by someone else regarding religion: in an openly polytheistic world, the idea of a paladin of St. Cuthbert meeting a paladin of pelor and them coming to blows is absurd. "My god is of Law and Good!" "Aye, mine is as well!" "Then let us sally forth..." etc. Oh, they'll give short shrift to those wedge-eared tree-huggin' Corellian Lantharian followers, but at the end of the day it's law and good that the paladin serves. His (or her) devotion to god/goddess is a secondary (very close to primary, but still secondary) thing. They're lawful good, and are devoted to a god who promotes law and good.

Finally, regarding players who "must" corrupt paladins...well, to put it briefly: RTRH did exactly what I would've done. That kind of mindset is absolute BS.

Anyway, that's enough from me.

I like the TheDungeonDelver's comments, again stop trying to make players play Paladins as "perfect" - that way lies Lawful Stupid.

I agree with you, Three Hearts and Three Lions, by Poul Anderson is the sourcebook for Paladin behaviour. IMC Paladins are Lawful Good serving Lawful Good gods. In addition to a 17 CHA, they must have a min of a 13 INT, a 13 WIS, a 16 STR and a 9 min for DEX & CON. This is the only character class that I do not strictly follow the 3d6 in order rolled one time rule. If a player wants to play a Paladin, they must convince me that they are up to the challenge. I then assign them the min stats from above and let the player roll 3d6 in order to see if he or she can better any of the stats. Paladin are my favorite character and I have retired several over the years. A confrontation as outlined at the beginning of this thread would cost them their Paladinhood IMC. Shrewd is definitely the word to describe a properly played Paladin.

Shrewd, I like that!

In my group, we have a simple test for Paladin behavior, called "WWSD?"
This stands for "What Would Superman Do?"
If you can look at a morally questionable situation and you can not imagine the Man of Steel doing what you are contemplating, then it is probably not appropriate for a Paladin. Using this test tends to clear up some of those cloudy situations.
(We also have a test for Ranger behavior: "WWRD" or, "What Would Rambo Do?", but I digress....)
Barring use of this simple test, deciding on how a Paladin should act requires some research into historic Knightly orders or monastic orders. Every Paladin character should have a code of conduct that he follows, and this should be agreed upon between the Player and the DM before play begins.
To save folks some research, here's a sample list of virtues that a Paladin is required to live by:
Truth:
The foundation of virtue. One who seeks out the truth within himself will surely develop other virtues, such as justice, courage, strength, and humility. Without truth, there is no light, but rather the spiritual darkness of self delusion and self deception, which must surely lead to other vices.
Honor:
The standard against which we measure ourselves, and are measured by others. It is a treasure which if kept grows in value; but once squandered can never be regained. The Paladin’s word must be more certain and sure than any written contract. And let every Paladin consider carefully before making any Oath, and never do so lightly or without due reflection; but rather let him strive to fulfill every Oath undertaken or stand bereft of honor.
Justice:
It is the Paladin’s duty has been to protect the innocent from harm and to punish the guilty. Fulfillment of this duty often requires physical combat; but battles fought differently are no less important. In all areas of life, the Paladin must strive so far as possible to fight injustice and help the right prevail.
Charity:
A Paladin will seek to aid those in need, giving succor and assistance to such as may need it, giving as his or her means permit, and without ostentation or display. True charity encompasses more than the material; a word of encouragement can mean more than gold, and a friendly ear more than jewels. The spirit of Charity may cause a Paladin to forgive a wrong done himself, if the act is truly repented. Charity will help the Paladin to avoid the errors of gluttony and greed.
Loyalty:
The brother and sister of Honor. When once a Paladin has made a commitment, let him or her not waiver or withdraw. But, realizing that a Paladin does not compromise his or her loyalty, let no such commitment be lightly made.
Courage:
The Paladin is charged with the duty of fighting for the right and good, and is thus destined to face many opponents. The battles may be of the body, and the dangers faced by the Paladin may be physical; but courage is as greatly in demand with the more subtle opponent of the mind or spirit. Whichever circumstances the Paladin enters, he or she must always face the enemy with valor.
Nobility:
A man may be ennobled by a King; but a soul can thus be elevated only by living according to standards higher than those of the common man. To achieve the Chivalrous Ideal is not possible; but the very striving uplifts the spirit and purifies the soul, and marks the true Paladin.
Humility:
The Paladin who looks upon his or her life without evasion or self-deception, and exercises the virtue of Truth, will surely be humbled by the vast gulf that lies between the Chivalrous Ideal and the reality of what is. Thus chastened, the Paladin will surely avoid the error of pride!
Excellence:
The Paladin strives always to do and be his best , no matter what the area of endeavor. They do so not for pride's sake, but rather to infuse even the most mundane task with nobility, and thus uplift themselves.
Faith:
The Paladin must be true to that which he or she believes in above all else, for with faith comes strength against every adversity and reverse. Faith is the lifeblood of Courage and Nobility; without it, life has no meaning. With faith, no force, not even death, can defeat the Paladin

I like this a lot in terms of writing up a creed or standard for the Paladin, but again stop requiring "perfection", give the player room to live in. I think one of the best ways to define your paladin is try to forget about real world religion and real world sensibilities and especially the modern add-on of political correctness. In my view a Paladin should be less politically correct that than any other character sense a Paladin is about right and wrong and common sense.

I find a lot in this thread to agree with, and I do use Three Hearts and Three Lions as inspiration for playing Paladins. I also model my Paladins after Robert E. Howard's Solomon Kane. I read all I could find years ago, but I just recently got a copy of The Savage Tales of Solomon Kane The adventures of the Legendary Puritan Swordsman and have really enjoyed reading it again after all these years along with some new material not published before.

He was ... a strange blending of Puritan and Cavalier, with a touch of the ancient philosopher, and more than a touch of the pagan .... A hunger in his soul drove him on and on, an urge to right all wrongs, protect all weaker things .... Wayward and restless as the wind, he was consistent in only one respect - he was true to his ideals of justice and right. Such was Solomon Kane.

A grim avenger armed with a fanatic's faith and a warrior's savage heart. (from the dust jacket)

All his life he had roamed about the world aiding the weak and fighting oppression, he neither knew nor questioned why. That was his obession, his driving force of life. Cruelty and tyranny to the weak sent a red blaze of fury, fierce and lasting, through his soul. When the full flame of his hatred was wakened and loosed there was no rest for him until his vengeance had been fulfilled to the uttermost. If he thought of it at all, he considered himself the fulfiller of God's judgement, a vesel of wrath to be emptied upon the souls of the unrighteous. Yet in the full sense of the word Solomon Kane was not a Puritan, though he thought of himself as such.

I have played many Paladins over the years. All except the current one have died in battle, and some of those died from old age more than from the battle itself. I always considered that Paladins do not retire, they fight until they are taken home.

I hate paladins and everything they represent.

Lately I've been trying to get rid of my Hatred of Paladins (the idea of mostly christianity based holy warrior in a silly tin-can armor is still mostly loathsome for me, but that's not the point here). I've been toying with a couple of ideas:

First is throwing a paladin into a noir-based urban game. After watching a couple of Bogarts this week, I kinda figured it would be somewhat cool to have a completely Good and Pure character in such a setting and stories - played reasonably withing the norms of society the Paladin could not even go medieval on the evildoers but would actually have to work low-key. Dunno, I just have this idea of the paladin's inner monologue when he encounters all sorts of human vileness from all around when he mucks around the the City in my mind, and it feels cool. And the City would place a good restriction to wearing the damn shiny armor too.

Second. Forget the real world base. Put a Paladin in the spot of the Avatar in the Ultima games. Drop the knightly codes of conduct and base the RP aspect of the character on the 8 Virtues (which would still keep the Lawful Good aspect of the class intact). The class features would fit the bill of the Avatar quite well - spellcasting, fighting prowess, all that stuff.

Third. I know saying me and Crimthan the Great have had our differences in the past is the understatement of the year, but I've never been one not to give credit where credit is due:

Solomon Kane is my primary inspiration for Paladins, so I am looking forward to this coming out.

That was the thing that sold me on giving Paladins a chance. My hat is off to you, sir. That's an insight of genius porpotions. And Mr. Kane doesn't wear a silly tincan armor.

I agree with Sauna, Solomon Kane as written by REH is a great model for a Paladin, here you have a portrayal of a less than perfect man who nevertheless has a this purpose he views as holy and consuming and he pursues it doing his best. When you player choses a Paladin give him or her this kind of direction and room to play and and everyone should have fun.

The last note I would suggest here is that you house rule out the line "They will associate only with Lawful characters." IMO is it too limiting since most people IMC are neutral , so I would leave the will "associate only with Lawful characters for their strongholds and own supporters and retainers.

I am quoting the following in the next post after this one: "The God-haunted paladins of Wyrd Greyhawk" by E.G.Palmer which I am quoting from the thread RtRH's Essay on Paladins. If E.G.Palmer objects please let me know and I will delete the quote.

As noted I am rewriting my own take on Paladins yet again and I am going to present many of the things that have influenced the rewrite that is in progress.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

This is the first time I've seen this thread, so I thought I'd add my blog write up on the paladins of my own Greyhawk from a few years ago.
I think there's a lot of convergence with Rizak's thread starter. I don't know it that's a good thing.

The God-haunted paladins of Wyrd Greyhawk.

The word Paladin derives from the Latin palatinus, meaning, "attached to the palace", and refers to the twelve Peers of Charlemagne. These men were seen as the best of the best, equal to the King in nobility, valor, and skill at arms. The term eventually came to be a descriptive title applied to those knights, of any country, which exemplified the virtues of the chivalric code, especially knightly prowess in battle.

The paladin character class of Wyrd Greyhawk has as its foundation the AD&D paladin listed in the Player’s Handbook. The changes I’m making to the class are as much a matter of enhancing the flavor and atmosphere of the setting as they are adjustments to the mechanics of the class. The minimum stat requirements remain the same, Str 12, Int 9, Wis 13, Con 9, except that I’m eliminating the Charisma minimum.
The paladins of Wyrd Greyhawk are not necessarily leaders of men. Many of them could be seen as Hermit Knights, or armored street preachers, or martial mystics as much as the standard expectation of a devout and selfless fighting man who lives to protect the weak from evil.

My setting is heavily medievalesque, but not exclusively so. The medieval/chivalric themes and attitudes must be altered to fit a world of lusty pulp adventure where life is red in tooth and claw, and the things of the Outer Dark hunger after blood and souls. The paladin class is populated by characters who are Chivalric idealists, but Wyrd Greyhawk is a grim and earthy world and the paladin goes about his work knowing that the greater share of humanity is self interested and uncaring, and that living by his ideals will almost certainly cost him his life. He does so anyway, because Right must be served. Solomon Kane is probably the best fictional character model for what I’m shooting for with the Wyrd paladin.

The paladins of Wyrd Greyhawk are driven men. They are as they are because they can be nothing else. A paladin has been chosen by a God to promote his cause as an emissary and exemplar of the deity’s ethos. Always are the God’s eyes upon the paladin, always he feels the God’s guiding hand upon his shoulder. NPC paladins are very rare. A kingdom may have only a handful. Even Nyrond or Furyondy hold no more than a dozen paladins each. A PC paladin will be close to unique in the campaign, and unlikely to meet others of the class.

A paladin can only be of Lawful Good alignment. Only Gods of this alignment will have paladins in their service. In Wyrd Greyhawk this includes Pelor, Pholtus, Heironious, Cuthbert, the Great God, and The One God. A paladin may be devoted to one of these gods, or more than one, save in the case of the One God, whose worshippers acknowledge no other. Which ever of these Gods the paladin reveres will affect the priorities of his personal Code of Chivalry.

This code of knightly conduct which a paladin observes varies from place to place, with some aspects emphasized while others are downplayed depending upon the ethos of the divinity with which the paladin is associated. Honor, Duty and self sacrifice are at the core of all variants of the chivalric code. A knight should display such virtues as courage, a willingness to give his own life for another’s, mercy, valor in war, skill at arms, justice and protection for the poor or weak, fairness, obedience and faithfulness to his God, generosity, graciousness to women, etc...

The exact virtues and expectations of the code, as well as which aspects carry the most weight in determining the correct course of action a paladin should take in any given situation depend upon the virtues particular to each paladin’s version of the code. When a PC paladin is created, the exact nature of his code of chivalry must be defined in writing. Once the PC paladin’s code of chivalry has been determined, the DM must enforce it ruthlessly. Adherence to the code, or failure to do so, supersedes alignment as the determining factor in deciding whether or not a paladin has access to his paladin’s abilities.

The code of a paladin of Pholtus includes the following tenets, observed in this order of precedence.

1. Obedience to Law
2. Never shirk a just task
3. Defense of any charge unto death
4. Order is the path to Rightness
5. Noble service dutifully rendered
6. The light must be shown to those who know it not
7. Respect for peers and equals
8. Obedience and respect from those beneath your station
9. Protection and justice for the weak
10. Prowess in battle is the test of righteousness

The chivalrous code of a paladin of Heironeous or of Pelor will be different, containing elements that are the same, or which overlap, but likely in a different order of importance, and certainly including different ideals. This means that though all paladins are Lawful Good in alignment, they will by no means think and act alike. Conflict between paladins upholding different codes and others of Lawful Good alignment over the proper course of action in a given situation is not unlikely.

I’m using a version of the Hackmaster 4E Honor system to determine when a paladin may or may not draw on his class abilities. The paladin’s scores in the class’s prime requisites, Str, Int, Wis, Con, are averaged to yield a base Knightly Virtue Score. Violations of the paladin’s code of chivalry or alignment cause penalties to accrue. Exemplary conduct receives bonuses. If penalties push the paladin’s Knightly Virtue Score below its base value, his class abilities are diminished, or unavailable, and remain so until suitable penance has been made. Likewise, bonuses may increase the power or duration of a paladin’s abilities. Bonuses, however, are more difficult to earn, and do not carry over from day to day.

A paladin who violates the code of chivalry looses his paladin’s abilities, becoming an ordinary knight, but may regain them with effort. A paladin who violates his alignment, Falls, and is forever more, a mere fighter.

A paladin, who keeps the code and acts in accordance with his alignment, may;

1. Detect evil up to 600 feet away, as often as desired, providing that the paladin is concentrating on detecting the presence of evil and seeking it in the correct general direction.
2. A paladin makes all saving throws at +2.
3. A paladin may "lay on hands" once per day. This heals 2 hit points worth of damage per level of experience of the paladin. A paladin may only heal others in this manner, he may not heal himself.
4. A paladin is immune to all forms of disease.
5. Once per week, a paladin may cure disease of any sort, magical or natural in origin.
6. A paladin may create a 10 foot radius Circle of Protection from Evil so long as he concentrates on maintaining the protection and performs no other actions. He may move at ½ normal movement rate, but may not attack and maintain the protection at the same time.
7. At the 3rd level of experience, a paladin gains the ability to Rebuke the undead, demons, devils, or other similar malignant extra planar creatures in a manner similar to the cleric’s ability to Turn undead. Monsters in this category with hit dice equal to or fewer than the paladin’s experience level must Save or be driven from his immediate presence by the power of his holy words. Those who Save may still not approach the paladin unless attacked first.
8. If a paladin manages to gain possession of a "Holy Sword", he may dispel magic in a 10 foot radius at the level of magic use equal to his level of experience. To do this, he must raise the sword, unsheathed, above his head and concentrate on no other task. Dispelling magic in this manner employs the power of the paladin’s divinity directly, and will invite the attention, and probable judgment of the deity.
9. A paladin, in straits most dire, may, 1% chance cumulative per level, receive divine aid in the form of an unexpected ally whose powers and abilities are just enough to level the field of battle and give the paladin a fighting chance of prevailing. The Cry for Succor is not to be given lightly, the paladin’s divine patron will consider it no small thing, and there will likely be strings attached. The paladin’s Knightly Virtue Score will add to or subtract from the chance of the divine patron sending aid. It is possible that the ally will become a henchman or boon companion at the DM’s discretion.
10. A paladin who receives divine healing from a cleric who reveres the same God as the paladin will always gain the maximum benefit possible from the spell.
11. Any normal creature the paladin employs as a mount will always give its utmost efforts.
12. A paladin gains +1 to initiative.

The standard AD&D restrictions on equipment remain in force.

1. A paladin may not own more than 10 total magic items, including 1 suit of armor, 1 shield, 4 weapons, and 4 magic items of other types.
2. A paladin may not retain wealth, keeping only enough coin to pay for his immediate needs until he reaches 10th level, after which point, he may keep monies sufficient to pay for the construction and staffing of a small castle.
3. A paladin will have only associates of congenial ethos if at all possible. It is very often not. Whether or not a paladin may interact with other PCs or NPCs of conflicting alignments, and for how long, or for what purpose, depends upon the paladin’s code of chivalry. The DM will pass hints to the player in the form of omens, feelings, or events to make the wishes of the paladin’s divine patron clear. Failure by the paladin to keep to his code will of course result in penalties being applied to his Knightly Virtue Score.

The paladin class is probably the least pulpy and Sword & Sorcery friendly class of any of the AD&D classes. Even the cleric is an easier fit, at least in my eyes, with its Van Helsing like origin as the nemesis of the infamous Sir Fang. The paladin come from a separate literary tradition, chivalrous romance, and approaches the themes of sword fantasy from the direction of a different set of assumptions about right, wrong, and the purpose of adventure.

This doesn’t make the paladin incompatible with the fighter, magic-user, thief, or cleric, or the world they inhabit, I don’t think. AD&D is an amalgamation of the many sorts of fantastic escapism popular at the time of it’s writing, as today’s editions are as well. The Wyrd-paladin is just my attempt to smooth the seams and joints between the paladin and the other classes, and also the version of Greyhawk I run.

I’m really just doing this for my own enjoyment; I don’t have any players who would consider running a paladin of any stripe. I think the class probably also suffers from all the contemporary social baggage it has to lug around as much as all the restrictions it carries in play. It seems to be largely assumed that a paladin is by definition a self righteous, holier than thou, jackass closet Nazi. I suppose it’s the sophisticated modern attitude that no person of religious devotion or feeling can also be a genuinely good and well meaning person.

The paladin is a necessary part of Wyrd Greyhawk though, even if no players chose to run one, they’re present in the game world. Meeting an NPC paladin is like dealing with a force of nature. They are not dissuaded or persuaded, and a God stands behind them. A powerful NPC paladin is something like a dragon of good, in so far as how the party must carefully consider what actions to take in dealing with him. A paladin is intractable, resolute, and a force to be reckoned with.

*That's the original notes on the Wyrd-paladin. I'm meaning to revise it some and further flesh it out, sometime, eventually.

Again if E.G.Palmer objects to me quoting this please let me know. Even though this is in regard to AD&D and I am writing about OD&D I find it to be excellent source material.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

Also as something to go with the whole thing about Paladins is their Warhorse and so give a look also at this thread where some ideas are bounced around and which I intend to do my own writeup for my campaign. I think we go a pretty good idea mix in [1E] Paladin's War Horse Quest, although of course I will be using it for OD&D.

This post will be expanded with my revised write up from the referenced thread as to the way I am incorporating that idea into my campaign worlds.

The original text regarding a Paladins Warhorse:

The paladin may at any time he chooses obtain a horse which is likewise gifted, but he may never obtain a second within ten years of the first, so if one is killed it is not automatically replaced. The paladin's horse is a Heavy, with Armor Class 5, Moves 18", has 5+1 Hit Dice, and high intelligence.

New writeup regarding a Paladins Warhorse:

The paladin may at any time he chooses obtain a horse which is likewise gifted(not subject to disease, has a 10% higher saving throw against all forms of attack [excluding melee] and detects all evil at a range of 6")by going on a special Quest, but he may never obtain a second within ten years of the first, so if one is killed it is not automatically replaced. The paladin's horse is a Heavy Warhorse, with Armor Class 2, Moves 24", has 8+1 Hit Dice, and high intelligence and wisdom. When the paladin decides the time has come to obtain his Warhorse, he will go on a Quest into the wilderness alone and guided by visions from above, after a difficult time of it he will find a horse in a trap battling for its life and the paladin can only effect a rescue at great risk to his own life. If they both survive, the horse will speak telepathically to the paladin and take him back to his homeland to meet the Horse King (Lawful). He will learn that the Horse King, like the paladin, serves LAW i.e the real deal, not some immortal that poses as a god (law, neutral, chaos) that the majority worship, but the real thing that only a few ever find.

The Horse King informs the man that, when a human saves a horse a blood-bond is formed. If the man wishes, he can join the elite group of humans known as the Horse Brothers; these folk have special-links to their mounts and can freely communicate with all equine. In addition, since he is a Paladin serving LAW, as all Paladins must and do, there are some special things that will also happen, the Horse King grants for paladins that their horse companion will stay vigorous and capable for its entire life span and that it will be extended past the normal bounds to match the paladins life span and the paladin will also remain vigorous and capable for his entire life span. No form of magic or attack will be able to age either the Paladin or his Mount.

Very powerful, yes it is; however you have not seen the new paladin writeup yet.

[Emerald Dragon]

Great ideas!

Recently, I have been working a three-variety paladin system into my game rules. It is not complete, but I have already decided on the names of the three paladin types.

Holy paladins, the first variety, are based on the traditional western idea of paladins (like Galahad), going back to Charlemagne. They focus largely on mounted combat with shield and one-handed melee weapons.

Astral paladins, the second variety, are the eastern counterpart of the Charlemagne variety, and they focus more on the eastern style of mounted combat, with mounted archery.

Primal paladins, the third variety, are the ancient counterpart (like Hercules), and they focus primarily on non-mounted combat, with melee weapons.

In my system, one of the key benefits of being a paladin is their ability to "convert" into another variety of paladin, thus taking on the powers and skills of the new paladin variety. The conversion represents a change in ideology, but it results in a change of powers and skills as well. Paladins will not be given a great amount of powers, but their ability to change into another type of paladin will be the main selling point to counter the drawbacks on having the role-playing restrictions inherent to paladins.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

Thank you!

As part of the Paladin writeup that I will be posting the following applies IMCs and IMWs:

All Paladins are Knights and Holy Warriors, while not all Knights are Paladins and not all Warriors are Holy. Holy warrior is a term reserved strictly for Paladins who by definition serve LAW i.e the real deal, not some immortal that poses as a god (law, neutral, chaos) that the majority worship, but the real thing that only a few ever find. Only a very few Clerics serve LAW, most are like the populace they serve and worship some immortal that poses as a god (law, neutral, chaos) that the majority worship. While Rangers also serve LAW they are not Holy Warriors, as their service takes a bit of a different path.

There is no such thing as a Holy pagan as there is no such thing as a pagan that serves LAW, so no pagan religion or group has Holy Warriors, it is not possible, they can only have Unholy Warriors. They are violent, vile, bloodthirsty Fanatics that some call anti-paladins, these are the natural enemies of Paladins (and of Rangers) and they serve CHAOS. There are no neutral counterparts, since that runs contrary to the whole concept of the indecisive, fence sitter neutral.

More to follow and all of this is being tweaked multiple times as I work towards a final version!

[ThePerilousDreamer]

It took me a while, but I finally got my hands on copies of The Deed of Paksenarrion 1. Sheepfarmer's Daughter 2. Divided Allegiance and 3. Oath of Gold. I have heard good thinks about these novels and I am reading them before going forward with this thread and completing the Paladin writeup.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

Back in November of 2009 I posted a new version of the Paladin in this thread Paladins of the Mace & Paladins of the SwordThis was having Paladins based on both Fighting-Men and Clerics; I had a lot of fun play testing it and the nine-year old girl who was playing the Cleric turning into a Paladin was playing Lawful the best I have ever seen it played. Right now I intend to go back to the basics and do a revised write-up of the OD&D Paladin using some of the previously revised material I have already created with a different take on the concepts I have been exploring.

There is this false meme out there in (A)D&D land that the Paladin HAS to be and always IS played as Lawful Stupid and as a pain in the posterior to all of the other players, to the whole party. This is completely at odds with and counters to the whole concept of the Paladin. If you are a player and you play like this: STOP IT! If you are the Ref (aka DM) and you force the player to play like this and even worse are always giving the player two EVIL choices as the only choice: STOP IT!



Now I am not going to speak to the concept of the Paladin (or any other class for that matter) in any version of D&D other than OD&D. OD&D is the 3LBBs. It is not only acceptable in OD&D to house rule the game; it is implied, stated, encouraged and expected that you will house rule the game. The Supplements: Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardy and Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes are not OD&D; they are supplements, optional, a house rule source, nothing more and that is the way they were both written and intended to be used. The supplements are to be used as much or as little as you want to or even not at all. I love Paladins so I use them, I don't like thieves and I don't use them (subject for another post).

The seven issues of the newsletter The Strategic Review are essentially short supplements and should be viewed that way. It was replaced by The Dragon magazine (later called just Dragon) and many view the first 20 to 30 issues as the best, but I would not limit it so. The Dragon was another source of house rules and the things written for AD&D could, if one so desired, be ported into OD&D as house rules. I myself only saw the first few issues of The Dragon and did not read the rest until the 1990's.

OD&D was and is a mix of many different things from fantasy and pulp fiction to a more than skin deep veneer of a Christian world view in some areas, which in later versions was mostly dropped and replaced with more explicit polytheism. Therefore, when you look at OD&D Clerics, Paladins, Rangers and Lawful alignments, you should view them through the correct lens with the correct assumptions; then if you want to do something different, go ahead and house rule it however you want to.

Now the Greyhawk write-up of the Paladin starts out:

Charisma scores of 17 or greater by fighters indicate the possibility of paladin status IF THEY ARE LAWFUL from the commencement of play for that character. If such fighters elect to they can then become paladins, always doing lawful deeds, for any chaotic act will immediately revoke the status of paladin, and it can never be regained.

In my experience, other than my experiment noted in the first paragraph above, I have never had a player ask to switch to a Paladin from a Fighting-Man. Bitd we always, without exception started Paladins as Paladins at first level. While I don't think there is anything wrong with doing it that way, I think the actual rules strongly imply that Paladin status is to be earned after there has been a track record of consistently LAWFUL play, not that I place much store in BtB as a reason for doing anything.

A few concepts: a Lawful Fighting-Man is just what it says - a good guy. A Lawful Cleric is a Holy Warrior and Clerics are Lawful and Anti-Clerics are Chaotic (Neutral there is not). Rangers are a more dedicated Lawful Fighting Man and Paladins are more deeply dedicated Lawful Fighting-Man & Holy Warrior. The deeper the level of dedication, the greater the penalty for transgressions and the greater the reward for obedience.

The revised first paragraph reads:

Human fighting-men or clerics who have a Charisma score of 17 or greater may become Paladins at fourth level IF THEY ARE LAWFUL from the beginning of play for that character and must continue to be LAWFUL. Depending on the severity of any chaotic or evil deed, the remedy ranges from atonement/quest to revocation of paladin hood and once lost, it can never be regained

.


I will continue this in my next post.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

The original write-up for the next section reads:

The paladin has a number of very powerful aids in his continual seeking for good: He can "lay on his hands" to cure wounds or diseases in others (two points of damage for every level the paladin has attained, one disease per five levels, either function performable but one per day). Paladins are not themselves subject to disease. They have a 10% higher saving throw against all forms of attack (excluding melee). Paladins of 8th level and above dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters, and the like) simply by ordering it hence, and they detect all evil at a range of 6".

I have just finished reading The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon. The Deed of Paksenarrion was originally published in three volumes and later in a combined single volume version. The three books included are Sheepfarmer's Daughter, Divided Allegiance and Oath of Gold. Excellent book and I would have to think that Elizabeth Moon is a D&D player.


The revised writeup(rough draft is):

Paladins have a number of very powerful aids in their continual quest for good. They can "lay on hands" to heal wounds or cure diseases and they are not themselves subject to disease. They heal two points of damage for every level the paladin has attained, twice per day at 4th level, thrice per day at 6th level and so on. They can cure minor diseases in groups of up to 20 people twice per day at 4th level and cure one serious disease for one person twice per day at 4th level and so on as for healing damage. Paladins starting at the base of 4th level can summon Light that functions as the spell or better as per referee.


Paladins that are 8th level and above gain the ability (separate from spells) to dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters, and such) by ordering it so, and they detect all chaos, as well as evil, at a range of 6”. They have a 10% higher saving throw against all forms of attack (excluding melee). They also gain the ability to see in the absence of light at 8th level.

[bargle]

anything I post in any thread I create here in the Workshop is solely intended to illuminate what I do IMCs and, where applicable, the reasoning behind it. Anything I post here in the Workshop, is not intended to comment in anyway on anything you do in your campaign

There is this false meme out there in (A)D&D land that the Paladin HAS to be and always IS played as Lawful Stupid and as a pain in the posterior to all of the other players, to the whole party. This is completely at odds with and counters to the whole concept of the Paladin. If you are a player and you play like this: STOP IT! If you are the Ref (aka DM) and you force the player to play like this and even worse are always giving the player two EVIL choices as the only choice: STOP IT!

[ThePerilousDreamer]

anything I post in any thread I create here in the Workshop is solely intended to illuminate what I do IMCs and, where applicable, the reasoning behind it. Anything I post here in the Workshop, is not intended to comment in anyway on anything you do in your campaign

There is this false meme out there in (A)D&D land that the Paladin HAS to be and always IS played as Lawful Stupid and as a pain in the posterior to all of the other players, to the whole party. This is completely at odds with and counters to the whole concept of the Paladin. If you are a player and you play like this: STOP IT! If you are the Ref (aka DM) and you force the player to play like this and even worse are always giving the player two EVIL choices as the only choice: STOP IT!

Yes, this is my opinion as it relates to my campaign, my players and my three co-refs.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

The next section (original write-up) reads as follows:

Paladins with any form of "Holy Sword" are virtually immune to all magic (see MONSTERS & TREASURE, MAGIC & TREASURE, Swords). The paladin may at any time he chooses obtain a horse which is likewise gifted, but he may never obtain a second within ten years of the first, so if one is killed it is not automatically replaced. The paladin's horse is a Heavy, with Armor Class 5, Moves 18", has 5+1 Hit Dice, and high intelligence.

The revised write-up (rough draft) is as follows:

Paladins with any type of Holy Sword are almost completely immune to all magic. The paladin may at any time he chooses obtain a horse which is likewise gifted (not subject to disease, has a 10% higher saving throw against all forms of attack [excluding melee] and detects all chaos or evil at a range of 6") by going on a special Quest, but he may never obtain a second within ten years of the first, so if one is killed it is not automatically replaced. The paladin's horse is a Heavy Warhorse, with Armor Class 2, Moves 24", has 8 + 1 Hit Dice, and high intelligence and wisdom. When the paladin decides the time has come to obtain his Warhorse, he will go on a Quest into the wilderness alone, guided by visions from above. The Paladin will be able to communicate telepathically with his horse.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

The final section (original write-up) reads as follows:

Paladins will never be allowed to possess more than four magical items, excluding the armor, shield and up to four weapons they normally use. They will give away all treasure that they win, save that which is necessary to maintain themselves, their men, and a modest castle. Gifts must be to the poor or to charitable or religious institutions, i.e. not to some other character played in the game. A paladin's stronghold cannot be above 200.000 gold pieces in total cost, and no more than 200 men can be retained to guard it. Paladins normally prefer to dwell with lawful princes or patriarchs, but circumstances may prevent this. They will associate only with lawful characters.

The revised write-up is as follows:

Paladins gain the following abilities as per the clerical spell: At 4th level Purify Food &Water once per day, at 6th level add Create Water once per day and at 8th Level add Create Food once per day. At 10th level all of these increase to twice per day.


Paladins will never be allowed to possess more than two magical items, this does not include armor, shield and up to 4 weapons that normally use. They will give away all treasure that they win, save that which is necessary to maintain themselves, their men, and a modest castle. Paladins may not obtain a castle until they reach 10th level. Gifts must be to the poor or to charitable or religious institutions, i.e. not to some other character played in the game. A paladin's stronghold cannot be above 200,000 gold pieces in total cost, and no more than 200 men can be retained to guard it. Paladins normally prefer to dwell with lawful princes or patriarchs, but circumstances may prevent this. They will form strong alliances only with lawful characters. However, they may be found in parties with Neutral Characters since most adventurers are Neutral, they will, however, not associate at all with Chaotic characters. Paladins are recognized wherever they go as constituting a legitimate authority of Judge, Jury and Executioner. Once they reach 10th level, even Kings are subject to their decisions.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

Therefore the full revised write-up reads as follows (and please keep in mind this is a rough draft):

Human fighting-men or clerics who have a Charisma score of 17 or greater may become Paladins at fourth level IF THEY ARE LAWFUL from the beginning of play for that character and must continue to be LAWFUL. Depending on the severity of any chaotic or evil deed, the remedy ranges from atonement/quest to revocation of paladin hood and once lost, it can never be regained.


Paladins have a number of very powerful aids in their continual quest for good. They can "lay on hands" to heal wounds or cure diseases and they are not themselves subject to disease. They heal two points of damage for every level the paladin has attained, twice per day at 4th level, thrice per day at 6th level and so on. They can cure minor diseases in groups of up to 20 people twice per day at 4th level and cure one serious disease for one person twice per day at 4th level and so on as for healing damage. Paladins starting at the base of 4th level can summon Light that functions as the spell or better as per referee.


Paladins that are 8th level and above gain the ability (separate from spells) to dispel evil (spells, undead, evil enchanted monsters, and such) by ordering it so, and they detect all chaos, as well as evil, at a range of 6”. They have a 10% higher saving throw against all forms of attack (excluding melee). They also gain the ability to see in the absence of light at 8th level.


Paladins with any type of Holy Sword are almost completely immune to all magic. The paladin may at any time he chooses obtain a horse which is likewise gifted (not subject to disease, has a 10% higher saving throw against all forms of attack [excluding melee] and detects all chaos or evil at a range of 6") by going on a special Quest, but he may never obtain a second within ten years of the first, so if one is killed it is not automatically replaced. The paladin's horse is a Heavy Warhorse, with Armor Class 2, Moves 24", has 8 + 1 Hit Dice, and high intelligence and wisdom. When the paladin decides the time has come to obtain his Warhorse, he will go on a Quest into the wilderness alone, guided by visions from above. The Paladin will be able to communicate telepathically with his horse.

Paladins will never be allowed to possess more than two magical items, this does not include armor, shield and up to 4 weapons that normally use. They will give away all treasure that they win, save that which is necessary to maintain themselves, their men, and a modest castle. Paladins may not obtain a castle until they reach 10th level. Gifts must be to the poor or to charitable or religious institutions, i.e. not to some other character played in the game. A paladin's stronghold cannot be above 200,000 gold pieces in total cost, and no more than 200 men can be retained to guard it. Paladins normally prefer to dwell with lawful princes or patriarchs, but circumstances may prevent this. They will form strong alliances only with lawful characters. However, they may be found in parties with Neutral Characters since most adventurers are Neutral, they will, however, not associate at all with Chaotic characters. Paladins are recognized wherever they go as constituting a legitimate authority of Judge, Jury and Executioner. Once they reach 10th level, even Kings are subject to their decisions.

This is the rough draft of the revised write-up, serious comments and suggestions are welcome.



Edit:

Almost forgot this:

Fighting-Men EXP Clerics EXP
1st Veteran 0 1st Acolyte 0
2nd Warrior 2000 2nd Adept 1500
3rd Swordsman 4000 3rd Village Priest 3000
4th Hero 8000 4th Vicar 6000
Paladins ----------------Hit Dice Fight as Clerical Spells/Level
----------------------------------------1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
4th Questor Hero 10,000 -----------6 -----------Hero +1-------2 1
5th Crusader Hero 20,000 -----------7+3 -----------6 Men---------2 2
6th Knight of Renown 40,000 -----------8+3 -----------7 Men---------2 2
7th Priest Knight 80,000 -----------9+3 -----------Super Hero -2 2 1
8th Pacifier Knight 160,000 -----------10+3 -----------9 Men---------2 2 1
9th Avenger Knight 320,000 -----------11+3 -----------Lord +3-------2 2 2
10th Justiciar Knight 480,000 -----------12+3 -----------11 Men +2 -2 2 2 1
11th Holy Knight 800,000 -----------13+3 -----------12 Men +2 -2 2 2 1
12th Paladin Knight 1,200,000 ---15 -----------14 Men -2 2 2 2 1

Sorry about the formating but if you hit the link and go to the blog it is easy to read: OD&D - The Paladin.

[ThePerilousDreamer]

I want to note again how much I like the write-up of the God-haunted paladins of Wyrd Greyhawk by E.G. Palmer. That is some really good stuff. The main thing I disagree with is where he says the paladin class is probably the least pulpy and Sword & Sorcery friendly class of any of the AD&D classes. Now of course I am talking OD&D instead of AD&D but the above noted suggestion of using REHs Solomon Kane as a Paladin model to me would make the class very pulpy and very Sword & Sorcery friendly. I would love to have a player spend some time reading all things REH and then giving it a shot.