[C&C] Serleran's Skills: Untested and Unapproved

[serleran]

I wanted to provide an alternative method for the use of skills. Here is my proposal, for the little value it is.

Every skill is associated with an attribute.

All characters gain a number of skills to use for each attribute based on their attribute modifer (that is, a character with an 18 gets 3 skills associated to that attribute.)

A character can reassign skills from other attributes to get additional skills for their Primes. For example, a character that wants to have additional Strength skills can give up some of his Wisdom-skills if he has Strength as a Prime (regardless of Race or Class Prime.)

If the character's attribute modifier is negative, they still gain 1 skill.

A character can specialize in a skill, which grants a +3 bonus, but it costs 2 skill selections.

Every 5000 XP, regardless of class, a character gains 1 more skill point.


I haven't worked out the rest, but... that's my basic idea. Useless?

[Nikosandros]

It looks interesting... how broadly would you define skills under this system?

[serleran]

This method is somewhat limiting in the number of skills a character may have, and as such, these skills would need to be broad, yet, defined. Also, because they are tied to specific attributes, they must make sense. One such example would be--

Acrobatics (Dexterity): The character is physically agile, able to perform numerous feats of acrobatic skill. Armor, however, interferes, and any check made while wearing armor suffers a penalty equal to the Armor Class bonus given by the armor. A character with this skill can do the following:

Balance - Use of this ability allows the character to maneuver across a precarious surface that others would be unable to cross. Generally, this means surfaces that are slippery, oddly angled, or between 2-6 inches wide. A successful check lets the character move at one-half normal speed along the surface for 1 round. A failure means that the character can’t move for 1 round. A failure by 5 or more means that the character falls. Surfaces less than 2 inches wide result in a -5 penalty to the check. A character may attempt to move more quickly than normal, but must take a -5 penalty, to move at normal speed; if the character takes a -10 penalty, then running speeds are allowed. A character who is attacked while balancing suffers a -2 penalty to AC, and attacks against the character are made at +2.

Jump -A successful check allows the character to move a number of feet indicated by the modifier to the check, as detailed below. The maximum distance of any jump is a function of the character's height. The difficulty modifier is applied per foot of additional movement. Movement made in this way counts for the total distance a character can travel in a round.

Type of Jump -- Minimum Distance -- Difficulty Modifier -- Maximum Distance
Running Jump -- 5 feet -- +1 -- +600%
Standing Jump -- 3 feet -- +2 -- +200%
Running High Jump -- 2 feet -- +4 -- +150%
Standing High Jump -- 2 feet -- +8 -- +50%
Backwards Jump -- 1 foot -- +8 -- +0%

[Turanil]

All characters gain a number of skills to use for each attribute based on their attribute modifer (that is, a character with an 18 gets 3 skills associated to that attribute.)

As long as players don't cheat with their attribute scores, it's okay.

Every 5000 XP, regardless of class, a character gains 1 more skill point.

At higher levels, they will gains dozens of points per level gained...


It would be me, I would create a shorter selection of skills, as that found in True 20, then these would be given at the rate of non-proficiencies in AD&D 2e.

[serleran]

As long as players don't cheat with their attribute scores

If you have to worry about this, find new players.

And, the 5,000 XP thing is tentative... I do think high level PCs should have more skills than low-level ones. However, there is an easy remedy. It could be removed, and simply turned into-- Every 3 levels, all characters gain 2 skill points.

[Maliki]

Sounds like a workable system, I do believe that tying the points to level gained would be a better than a flat XP value. Either way it sounds like a system that is worthy of at being completed and used in an actual game.

[+2 backscratcher]

And, the 5,000 XP thing is tentative... I do think high level PCs should have more skills than low-level ones. However, there is an easy remedy. It could be removed, and simply turned into-- Every 3 levels, all characters gain 2 skill points.

I would suggest you have the XP cost increase with skill level. Just like it gets harder to advance in a class when you go up levels.

All that would be required would be a skill advancement table similar to the class advancement tables. You might even have skills broken down into categories that allow different advancement progressions. For example, riding a horse is easier to learn than 'other planes lore', so you would require less XP to increase it.

You might even try using class to determine how much XP are required to advance. For example, a fighter may learn horsmanship easier than a thief (er... rogue) but would learn 'juggling' at a slower rate compared to the rogue.

These are just some ideas for you. Hope this helps.

[rabindranath72]

Interesting, but I prefer something simpler.
I go with a system based on the RC general skills.
- Every character starts with 4 skill slots, +1 for every point of intelligence modifier (i.e. a 18 int character starts with 7 skills)
- Every skill is based on an attribute
- When using a skill, it works like a class ability (i.e. 1d20+char level+attr. modifier)
- A skill slot can be spent to increase the bonus for the check (e.g. I have Cooking + 1, so I roll 1d20 + char level + 1 + attr. modifier)
- A skill slot is gained every 4 levels.

It seems to work well. I am using it since 10 months.

Cheers,
Antonio

[Maliki]

rabindranath72 wrote

Interesting, but I prefer something simpler.
I go with a system based on the RC general skills.
- Every character starts with 4 skill slots, +1 for every point of intelligence modifier (i.e. a 18 int character starts with 7 skills)
- Every skill is based on an attribute
- When using a skill, it works like a class ability (i.e. 1d20+char level+attr. modifier)
- A skill slot can be spent to increase the bonus for the check (e.g. I have Cooking + 1, so I roll 1d20 + char level + 1 + attr. modifier)
- A skill slot is gained every 4 levels.

It seems to work well. I am using it since 10 months.

Cheers,
Antonio

This also sounds like a very workable system , although I don't have RC, so I would probably use the skill list from 3E, or the NWP from 2E.

[rabindranath72]

rabindranath72 wrote

Interesting, but I prefer something simpler.
I go with a system based on the RC general skills.
- Every character starts with 4 skill slots, +1 for every point of intelligence modifier (i.e. a 18 int character starts with 7 skills)
- Every skill is based on an attribute
- When using a skill, it works like a class ability (i.e. 1d20+char level+attr. modifier)
- A skill slot can be spent to increase the bonus for the check (e.g. I have Cooking + 1, so I roll 1d20 + char level + 1 + attr. modifier)
- A skill slot is gained every 4 levels.

It seems to work well. I am using it since 10 months.

Cheers,
Antonio

This also sounds like a very workable system , although I don't have RC, so I would probably use the skill list from 3E, or the NWP from 2E.

Sure! The system is there; you would need the RC just for the skills. But I guess any list of skills could be easily used. The 3e list perhaps has the advantage that if you have players used to them, they will already know how they work.

Cheers,
Antonio

[+2 backscratcher]

Interesting, but I prefer something simpler.
I go with a system based on the RC general skills.
- Every character starts with 4 skill slots, +1 for every point of intelligence modifier (i.e. a 18 int character starts with 7 skills)
- Every skill is based on an attribute
- When using a skill, it works like a class ability (i.e. 1d20+char level+attr. modifier)
- A skill slot can be spent to increase the bonus for the check (e.g. I have Cooking + 1, so I roll 1d20 + char level + 1 + attr. modifier)
- A skill slot is gained every 4 levels.

With this system, do skill slots allow you to improve skills you already have AND allow you to pick new skills? If so, there's a problem I see.

Example; Say you have a high level fighter who wants to learn how to track. Since this is a class ability of the ranger, the fighter would normally not add his level to these checks (if the CK even allows the fighter to even try it ).

Once the figher reaches level X and is allowed to choose a new skill (or improve an old one), he chooses the Track skill.....which is now treated as a class ability. All of a sudden the fighter is a master tracker (due to his high level) because he's adding his level to all tracking attempts.

This wouldn't be a big deal for low level characters, but could be a problem at high levels.

[Rigon]

As interesting as your system looks Serl, I think one of the great aspects of C&C is the fact that no skill system is need. But, if I was forced to use a skill system, I would use one similar to what Rabindranath did. Except, each skill would give a blanket +2 to a check. No adding of level. So in the example by backscratcher, the fighter would be able to take Tracking and would get to add a +2 to his roll, like so: d20 + attribute mod + 2. Whereas a ranger who took Tracking as a skill would get to add the same +2 to his class ability, like so: d20 + attribute mod + level + 2. This way the fighter can have some skill at tracking, yet the ranger remains the undisputed champ of following people. Just my take on it.

R-

Edit: I would use the NWP from 2e. Don't have RC . . . yet.

[Maliki]

Rigon wrote

I would use one similar to what would use one similar to what Rabindranath did. Except, each skill would give a blanket +2 to a check. No adding of level. So in the example by backscratcher, the fighter would be able to take Tracking and would get to add a +2 to his roll, like so: d20 + attribute mod + 2. Whereas a ranger who took Tracking as a skill would get to add the same +2 to his class ability, like so: d20 + attribute mod + level + 2. This way the fighter can have some skill at tracking, yet the ranger remains the undisputed champ of following people. Just my take on it.

This would still allow a 1st level fighter to track better than a 1st level ranger, they would track equally at 2nd and the ranger would be better at third and higher. IMHO the ranger should be better at every level, so maybe instead of a +1 bonus per level as in rabindranath72's system a +1 bonus at every other level +1 at 2nd level, +2 at 4th level, +3 at 6th level, etc. This still allows the character taking the skill to improve over time, but not as fast a character with a skill already covered by class ability.

[rabindranath72]

Actually, it depends on what skills do you want to make available. Since Tracking is a Ranger class skill, I would NOT put it into the pool of General Skills. The same goes for the other class skills. So, no, the Fighter would never be allowed to beat a Ranger at tracking; the best he could do would be an attribute check.

In my Classic RC/SIEGE games, since I do not have Rangers, I allow characters to choose the Tracking skill (as well as Stealth and other skills). So, a "Ranger" in my campaigns is simply a Fighter (or Thief!) with Stealth, Tracking, Survival and some other "outdoors" skills.

The General Skills list in the RC is well thought out in this respect, since it does not contain any skill which could be used as a class special ability.

For a strictly C&C game, I would create an appropriate skills list. The one in the RC is a nice start, I think (as well as the 3e skills in the SRD, with some tweaking: I would remove all the Rogue skills, for example).

Cheers,
Antonio

[rabindranath72]

Oh, I forgot to mention:
the skill slots can be used to extend the class abilities. So, if you want to be a Ranger particularly good at Tracking, you could allot some bonus slots to the skills at the expense of other skills.

Cheers,
Antonio

[Maliki]

rabindranath72 wrote

Oh, I forgot to mention:
the skill slots can be used to extend the class abilities. So, if you want to be a Ranger particularly good at Tracking, you could allot some bonus slots to the skills at the expense of other skills.

Cheers,
Antonio

I thought about this as well, do you limit how many points can be placed in a single skill at one time, or can a player spend all his points on a single skill/class ability?

[rabindranath72]

I put a "natural" limit for one-time additions, given by the relevant attribute modifier, with a minimum of one skill slot.
For example, a Rogue with a +1 Dexterity can at most spend one skill slot on Dexterity-based skills/class abilities.
Note that this is a concern just at first level, to avoid that a first level character spends all skill points (minimum 4, maximum 7) on a single skill! With advancement, skill slots are gained just one at a time.

Cheers,
Antonio

[Maliki]

Thanks, that sounds like a good way to limit a character loading up on a single skill, at first level.

[Supernaught]

I've been toying with the idea of using an expanded version of the old Arcanum RPG skill system in my soon to start C&C game. The Arcanum also has a real cool system for MC characters which I might adapt after I get a good look at CZ.

[rabindranath72]

Thanks, that sounds like a good way to limit a character loading up on a single skill, at first level.

I found it a good system, in effect. Considering how rare 18s should be, it is not a problem if some erratic PC/NPC chooses to be a super expert at something. Obviously, this has its drawbacks, if the DM allows use of the skills in a consistent and broad way.

Cheers,
Antonio