[C&C] Expanded Item Saves

[serleran]

Item Saving Throws

Material - A / C / NB / D / F / FB / MF / NF / Fr / L / E

A = Acid
C = Crushing
NB = Normal Bludgeoning
D = Disintegrate
F = Fall
FB = Fireball
MF = Magic Fire
NF = Normal Fire
Fr= Frost
L = Lightning
E = Electricity


Bone or Ivory: P / -- / P / -- / P / -- / P / P / P / P / P
Ceramic: P / -- / P / -- / -- / P / P / P / P / P / P
Cloth: P / P / P / -- / P / -- / -- / -- / P / -- / P
Crystal or Vial: P / -- / -- / -- / -- / P / P / P / P / -- / P
Glass: P / -- / -- / -- / -- / P / P / P / P / -- / P
Leather or Book: P / P / P / -- / P / -- / P / P / P / -- / P
Liquid*: -- / P / P / -- / P / -- / -- / -- / P / -- / --
Metal, Hard: P / P / P / -- / P / P / P / P / P+ / P / P
Metal, Soft or Jewelry**: -- / -- / P / -- / P / -- / -- / P / -- / -- / P
Parchment or Paper: -- / P / P / -- / P / -- / -- / -- / P / -- / P
Stone, Small or Gem: P / -- / P / -- / P / P / P / P / P / -- / P
Wood or Rope, Thin: P / -- / P / -- / P / -- / P / P / P / P / P
Wood or Rope, Thick: P / P / P / -- / P / P / P / P / P / P / P


If an item is subjected to an attack form to which its save, listed above, is marked "P," then a d20 is rolled, modified appropriately, against a difficulty of 12 plus the level or intensity of the attack; in all ways, this save is treated identically to the saving throw method utilized by characters. If the save is not listed as "P" then the base difficulty is 18, modified as above.

*-- Category includes potions, magical oils, poisons, and acids. If the save is successful, the container saves automatically.

**-- Category includes pearls and all non-precious and semi-precious gems.

+-- If the item is struck within one round of being subjected to a frost attack, a save vs. Crushing is required, at a -10 penalty.

Magic items have a flat +2 bonus on all saves, with an additional +1 per enchantment bonus. In addition, if an item, magical or not, is subjected to an attack form of its own mode, the save is made with a +10 bonus.

Example: A wand of fireballs is subjected to the area of effect of a fireball spell; the wand gains a +14 bonus to its save vs. fireball to resist destruction.

Example Two: A steel shield is struck by the awesome might of an ogre’s giant club. The shield gains a +10 bonus on its save vs. normal bludgeoning to resist being destroyed.

Artifacts and relics, at the Castle Keepers discretion, and on an individual basis, can be considered to be indestructible, requiring a very specific process to destroy. Alternatively, a Castle Keeper can apply a bonus to all save categories, say, with a +6 bonus, rendering them improbable to be destroyed, but still leaving it possible.

Attack Forms

Acid - This category assumes a tremendous amount of exposure or subjection to a potent acid, such as the effects of a Black Dragon breath attack, or immersion for an extended period of time. In the latter case, a save is only made after the item has been thusly exposed, and is not required if the object is removed before the timeframe expires; as a general rule of thumb, an item must be immersed for one round per 50 gold pieces of its base value. A magic item extends this duration by +1 round per enchantment bonus. In the event of a direct attack, such as the Black Dragon example, the difficulty modifier is equal to the Hit Dice or level of the source; in the case of simple exposure, the difficulty modifier begins at 1, and increases cumulatively per round of exposure, beginning the round after the item must initially save, in this way, the longer an object is left in acid, the more likely it is to be destroyed.

Example: A magical long sword +1 is accidentally dropped in a vat of potent acid. It has two rounds (15 GP cost / 50 = 1; +1 for +1 magic bonus) before it must save. On the third round of immersion, a save is required, with a +1 modifier to the difficulty. Its base is 12 (for being a hard metal, saving against an acid attack), and gets a +3 bonus. A 10 or higher is required (d20 + 3 >= 13,) but a 7 is rolled and the sword is destroyed.

Crushing, This category assumes a hefty impact with a powerful force, such as that delivered from a giant’s attack, or collision with an unyielding surface. In the case of an attack, such as one delivered by an Ogre or a Stone Giant for example, the Hit Dice or level of the source is added to the difficulty of the save; in the case of the secondary use of this save category, such as a glass vial being hurled and striking a metallic surface, the difficulty modifier is equal to double the Strength modifier with a minimum of 1. If a Strength modifier is unknown, then the Fall save should be used, instead.

Example: A Dwarf Fighter with 14 Strength is facing a group of Skeletons, when the character decides to hurl a glass vial of holy water at them. A hit is determined. The glass vial must make a save against a difficulty of 20 (18 base, +2 for the character’s Strength modifier doubled), and a 17 is rolled, resulting in failure. The vial shatters, and spills its contents.

Normal Bludgeoning, This category assumes average impact, such as the ordinary striking of blunt weapons to armor in melee, or the collision of a heavy object upon another. If an object collides with a durable, but slightly yielding surface such as water, this save category is also applied. In all respects, the rules as stated for Crushing, above, apply.

Disintegrate, This category applies to any exposure to the spell disintegrate, and the level or Hit Dice of the source is always used to affect the save difficulty.

Fall, This category assumes an object has fallen at least 5 feet and come into direct contact with a hard surface. If the object impacts against a softer surface, such as wood or cloth, a +1 bonus is applied to the save; if the object impacts with a fleshy surface a +5 bonus is applied. However, for every 5 feet of falling distance, increase the save difficulty by one.

Example: A leather book slips out of a wizard’s backpack as he levitates up a mountainside. The book falls 25 feet, and strikes the trailing halfling thief. The book must make a save against a difficulty of 17 (12 base, +5 for falling 25 feet), but gets a +5 bonus on the check, due to the impact against a fleshy surface. A 14 is rolled, and the book survives the fall.

Fireball, This assumes exposure to any tremendous heat, such as that created by the spell fireball and meteor swarm, the effects of a Red Dragon’s breath, or immersion in lava. In the latter case, the rules for immersion in Acid, above, apply. In all other cases, the Hit Dice or level of the source are used to determine the save difficulty.

Magic Fire, This category assumes direct contact with any magical effect not listed in Fireball, above, and having the word "Fire" or "Flame" in its name, such as fire storm or flame strike. The Hit Dice or level of the source is used to determine the save difficulty.

Normal Fire, This category assumes direct and prolonged exposure to intense mundane fire sources, such as a bonfire or flaming oil. An object that is highly susceptible to burning, such as paper, must immediately save or be destroyed. Other items require additional rounds of exposure at the Castle Keepers discretion. Each round beyond the initial timeframe increases the save difficulty by 1, in this way, the longer an item is left to burn, the more likely it is to be destroyed.

Frost, This category assumes exposure and direct contact with any form of intense cold, such as the effects of a White Dragon’s breath or the magic spells cone of cold and ice storm. In all cases, the save difficulty is modified by the level or Hit Dice of the source.

Note: A hard metallic object that is exposed to a Frost attack and then subjected to any form of blunt trauma within 1 round after must make a save against Crushing, at a -10 penalty.

Lightning, This category assumes exposure to any spell with the word "Lightning" in its name such as lightning bolt or call lightning, and the effects of a Blue Dragon’s breath. In all cases, the save difficulty is modified by the level or Hit Dice of the source.

Electricity, This category assumes contact with any lesser magical electricity effect, such as shocking grasp and the electrical effects of an electric eel. In all cases, the save difficulty is modified by the level or Hit Dice of the source.

[Grimaryl Atyar]

Copied, pasted, saved, and printed!

[PeelSeel2]

I like it, but it makes item saves atrociously hard. Might I suggest that since most magic items have to be crafted by a 9th level wizard at minimum, the item should automatically get a minimum of +9 to that save, In addition to 'bonuses'.

[serleran]

That is intrinsically implied, but only for saves in which the Hit Die or level is applied. Doing otherwise makes items near indestructible, or is counter-intuitive to the save type vs item type. For example, if you gave all glass a +9 vs. everything, then it could, essentially, fall 50 feet with the same chance of breaking as it currently has at 10... and that, simply, in my opinion, is wrong. Giving all items a "crafter level bonus" is against the feel of the system from which this was derived, that being the 1E DMG. And, finally, a "level bonus" is, again, assumed prior to the item saving in the first place, as generally, items will only need to save if the character / creature using it fails a save... all other situations are subject to Castle Keeper fiat.

[The GM]

Thank you.

We were just toying with this the other night... Good to have.

I won't apply the "Plus level" rule because I only require items to save if the player carrying them fails their save. Or they're not being carried. Adding level to the item's save would make it pretty hard for an item to fail.

Don.

[GenghisWayne]

Thanks. I had just bookmarked the 1e DMG page on Item saves for my last session. Now I can switch to these.

[csperkins1970]

I like it, but it makes item saves atrociously hard. Might I suggest that since most magic items have to be crafted by a 9th level wizard at minimum, the item should automatically get a minimum of +9 to that save, In addition to 'bonuses'.

I think I'd alter it like so...

Item Saving Throws: Sometimes a spell specifies whether items in its area of effect are potentially damaged. These items are required to make a saving throw or be destroyed.



If an item is subjected to an attack form to which its save, listed above, is marked "P," then a d20 is rolled with a +5 modifier. If the save is listed as "--" the save receives no modifier.

Magic items have a flat +5 bonus on all saves, with an additional +1 per magical bonus. In addition, if an item is subjected to an attack form of its own mode (such as a wand of fireballs saving versus fire or armor saving versus a crushing attack), the save is made with a +10 bonus.

Artifacts and relics, at the DM’s discretion, and on an individual basis, can be considered to be indestructible, requiring a very specific process to destroy. Alternatively, a DM can apply a bonus to all save categories, say, with a +20 bonus, rendering them improbable to be destroyed, but still leaving it possible.

The save penalty is based upon the intensity of the attack. The penalty is usually equal to -1 per 5 points of damage dealt (round fractions normally) with a minimum penalty of -1 applying to all saves. As such, an attack that deals 16 points of damage would incur a save penalty of -3.

For effects that do not directly deal damage the penalty is equal to the threat’s level (usually the caster level for spells or hit dice for spell-like abilities). In all other ways, this save is treated identically to the saving throw method utilized by characters.

Example: A steel shield is struck by the awesome might of an ogre’s giant club for 13 points of damage (-3 save penalty). Normally the shield would not need to make a save but, in this instance, the ogre is specifically trying to sunder the shield. The hard metal shield normally gains a +10 bonus on its save because it is designed to absorb blows (it was subjected to an attack form of its own mode) and an additional +5 bonus because hard metal gets a +5 bonus on saves versus crushing attacks. Its total save bonus is +12 and, as such, needs to roll a 3 or higher to make its save (d20+12≥15).

Attack Forms:

Acid: This category assumes a tremendous amount of exposure or subjection to a potent acid, such as the effects of a black dragon breath attack, or immersion for an extended period of time. In the latter case, a save is only made after the item has been thusly exposed, and is not required if the object is removed before the timeframe expires; as a general rule of thumb, an item must be immersed for one round +1 per round for each point of magical bonus the item has (+2 for those items that do not have a specific bonus).

In the case of total immersion, the save penalty cumulatively increases by +1 per round of exposure, beginning the round after the item must initially save, in this way, the longer an object is left in acid, the more likely it is to be destroyed.

Example: A magical +1 long sword is accidentally dropped in a vat of potent acid that does 1d6 points of damage per round. It has two rounds (1 round +1 round due to its magical bonus) before it must save. On the third round of immersion the acid deals 3 points of damage and a save is required, with a -1 save penalty due to the intensity of the attack. It gains a +5 bonus for being a hard metal item saving versus acid and another +6 bonus for being a +1 sword (+5 base +1 for its magical bonus), for a total modifier of +10 (+11 because the sword is made of hard metal and has a +1 enchantment and -1 due to the severity of the attack). A 5 or higher is required (d20+10≥15) but a 4 is rolled and the sword is destroyed.

Crushing: This category assumes that an object has met with an crushing or bludgeoning force, such as that delivered from a giant’s attack or in a collision with an unyielding surface, such as when an object falls and hits the ground.

Example: A dwarven fighter with a 14 Strength is facing a group of skeletons, when the character decides to hurl a glass vial of holy water at one of them and hits. The glass vial must make a save with a save penalty of 1 (throwing the vial against the skeleton dealt 4 points of damage: 1d6 points of damage +1 for the dwarf’s strength bonus) and, as such, must roll a 16 or higher on a d20 to succeed at its save (d20-1≥15). A 15 is rolled, resulting in failure. The vial shatters, and spills its contents.

Disintegrate: This category applies to any exposure to the spell disintegrate, and damage dealt is always used to affect the save difficulty.

Fire (Magical): This category assumes direct contact with any magical effect with "fire" or "flame" in its name, such as fireball, fire storm or flame strike. It is also used for dragons’ breath weapon attacks and for immersion in lava. In the latter case, the rules for immersion in acid, above, apply.

Fire (Normal): This category assumes direct and prolonged exposure to intense mundane fire sources, such as a bonfire or flaming oil. An object that is highly susceptible to burning, such as paper, must immediately save or be destroyed. Other items require additional rounds of exposure at the DM’s discretion. Each round beyond the initial timeframe increases the save penalty by 1. In this way, the longer an item is left to burn, the more likely it is to be destroyed.

Frost: This category assumes exposure and direct contact with any form of intense cold, such as the effects of a white dragon’s breath or the magic spells cone of cold and ice storm. In all cases, the save difficulty is modified by the level or hit dice of the source.

Note: A hard metallic object that is exposed to a frost attack and then subjected to any form of blunt trauma within 1 round after must make a save against crushing, at a -5 penalty.

Lightning: This category assumes exposure to any spell with the word "lightning" in its name such as lightning bolt or call lightning, contact with any lesser magical electricity effect, such as shocking grasp, the electrical effects of an electric eel and the effects of a blue dragon’s breath.

[Maliki]

list, thanks.

[Doomis]

Very good list. However in general I've always found item saving throws to be bothersome and cumbersome. When they are used it was always a 'special' circumstance, i.e. PC failed their Dragon Breath save, fell into a vat of acid, an item was the specific target of an attack. Otherwise it was just another roll every time something happened and all that phat loot the PCs got could be gone in an instant.