The Essential D&D Mechanics

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Zaxon
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The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Zaxon »

Mearls is at it again in his latest Legends and Lore article. This guy has been casting raise dead with some of his subtle old school hat tips. I don't believe this is mere coincedence that every article has some old school revelation to it.

Now as you read this remember this was a survey he sent to D&D R&D. I ask, why send this to R&D? Hmmmmmmm?

Also, for friendly discussion - How much of this list do you agree with? I for one thinks this pretty much nails it for me.
The Essential D&D Mechanics

Not too long ago, I decided to send out a short survey to the members of D&D R&D. I asked them to make a list of the most important mechanical elements of D&D. The basic idea was to make a list of mechanics that, if any one of them were missing, you’d feel like you weren’t playing D&D. From the opposite perspective, these are mechanics that make you think of D&D when you see them in other games. Here’s the list:

-The six ability scores,Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma,as the categories for measuring a character’s abilities.

-Armor Class as the basic representation of a character’s defense.

-Alignment (Law v. Chaos, Good v. Evil) as a personal ethos and a force in the universe.

-Attack rolls made using a d20, with higher rolls better than lower ones.

-Classes as the basic framework for what a character can do.

-Damage rolls to determine how badly a spell or attack hurts you.

-Gold pieces as the standard currency for treasure.

-Hit dice or level as the basic measure of a monster’s power.

-Hit points as a measure of your ability to absorb punishment, with more powerful characters and creatures gaining more of them.

-Levels and experience points as a measure of power and a mechanic that lets characters become more powerful over time.

-Magic items such as +1 swords as a desirable form of treasure.

-Rolling initiative at the start of a battle to determine who acts first.

-Saving throws as a mechanic for evading danger.

-"Fire-and-forget" magic, with spellcasters expending a spell when casting it.
How years ago in days of old
When magic filled the air,
Twas in the darkest depths of Mordor
I met a girl so fair,
But Gollum, and the Evil One crept up
And slipped away with her.

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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Mr. Awesome »

I'd put it in tiers:

Essential:
6 randomly determined ability scores, ranging from 3-18.
Armor class as a simple way to determine defense. Up or down, it makes no difference.
Hit points as a randomly determined, semi-abstract way to determine how tough something is, increasing by level.
Attack rolls using a d20.
Saving throws using a d20.
Random damage determination.
Levels and experience points.
Vancian magic.

Secondarily Important (but negotiable):
Alignment. Chaos/law or chaos/law and good/evil. Either way.
Gold pieces as standard monetary unit.
Magic items, including +X as a show of an item's power.
Random initiative.
The real possibility of character death.
The allowance of demi-humans with level limits. Mainly elves and dwarves.
The iconic four classes, the various iconic spells, and various iconic monsters.

The first list is the core components of D&D, as I see them. The problem with this list is that it describes a lot of games besides D&D; it more or less describes Palladium and Earthdawn, just looking at my shelf. I'm sure there are many others.

The second list is things that, while core to D&D, could be taken out without destroying the game at a basic level. You could play D&D without alignment, but it interferes with the outer planes and certain magic items. You could use something else in place of gold pieces, but why bother? You could play without magic items, or with weapons/armor/etc. that doesn't use the simple +X system, but it seems like it would be a bit of a drag. You could do without random initiative if you could find a good alternative, as far as I'm concerned. I also think that the possibility of character death is pretty core to the game, but I put it in the negotiable list, as some people would rather play a different type of game and you can use D&D to do so just fine. You could not use demi-humans or not worry about level limits without too many problems.

I'm not sure about the iconic stuff. I think you can play D&D without rust monsters and magic missiles. I dunno. Is D&D more than its mechanics?
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Stronghold »

I will dig up the primers i wrote and post them if you would like.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Morlin »

This seems like as good a place as any to post a link to this gem from long ago...

http://www.risusmonkey.com/2011/06/ryth ... -1977.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And to think I was planning on turning in early tonight... :lol:
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by DungeonDevil »

* Arcane vocabulary
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What's not to love?

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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Matthew- »

Morlin wrote: This seems like as good a place as any to post a link to this gem from long ago...

http://www.risusmonkey.com/2011/06/ryth ... -1977.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And to think I was planning on turning in early tonight... :lol:
Indeed. Great little document. :D
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by SaveForHalf »

For me, alignment could be completely omitted and I'd still feel like I was playing D&D. Likewise, whether the base currency is the gold piece or something more world-specific like silver crowns, imperial sovereigns, bronze ducats, or gold florins doesn't matter. Also, rolling randomly for initiative isn't a must. If I'm not mistaken, in Holmes basic, combatants go in Dex order and initiative is only rolled if two combatants are within one or two Dex points of each other.

D&D is more than just mechanics, though. The traditional classes, races, monsters, spells, etc. are just as important to the experience.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Nagora »

Alignment as a cosmic force is something that I don't think is essential. Gold and lots of it is very characteristic of D&D but I don't think "essential" is quite right. Other than that, I guess Mearls' list is pretty spot-on.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Turanil »

Another essential D&D mechanic is 3-core-books-only, that is incompatible with essential WotC mechanic of selling hundreds of different book. As such, I think that Mearl's attempt toward D&D are useless...
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by mjudge55 »

Nagora wrote:Alignment as a cosmic force is something that I don't think is essential. Gold and lots of it is very characteristic of D&D but I don't think "essential" is quite right. Other than that, I guess Mearls' list is pretty spot-on.
+1 as to alignment. At least in my experience, alignment is more an interesting topic of discussion than it is a determiner of what game play is like, though it does have its moments.

I also think XP for gold is an essential mechanic, though I'm not arguing it's indispensable... in this thread anyway :)
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Richter_Bravesteel »

I have a surprisingly short list!

To me, D&D means:
- class and levels
- dungeon crawling and/or overland exploration
- the aqquisition of cool stuff via adventuring
- each class having a distinct role

As such, the biggest offense done to D&D in later editions was mudying up the distinction between classes.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by IvanMike »

to be honest the list as posted sounds spot on. every once in a while i go on a bender of posting on a more "catholic" RPG site, and any time any of those listed get belittled or discarded i get a bit miffed. I can listen to and understand the reasoning behind not wanting any one of these particular mechanics, but to be honest, at that point the RPG becomes definitively "not D&D" to me.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Stormcrow »

The Essential D&D Mechanics
What tripe. Here's a complete D&D character:

Str 8; Int 9; Wis 8; Dex 13; Con 13; Cha 4
Neutral Thief
HP 4; XP 0
GP 50
Leather armor, dagger, thieves' tools, large sack, backpack, 6 torches, tinder box, 12 iron spikes, small hammer

Nothing else is necessary. Everything else is to be ruled by the DM. If the DM happens to use the various tables presented in the rule books, so be it; they're known to work well. There is nothing sacred in using the presented attack and save tables, for instance. Everything else one might consider "essential" to the game is simply a function of something presented above. (For instance, "level" is just a representation of approximately how many experience points the character has. Armor class is just an index number for the degree of protection from normal attacks the character has.)
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by IvanMike »

Stormcrow wrote:
The Essential D&D Mechanics
What tripe. Here's a complete D&D character:

Str 8; Int 9; Wis 8; Dex 13; Con 13; Cha 4
Neutral Thief
HP 4; XP 0
GP 50
Leather armor, dagger, thieves' tools, large sack, backpack, 6 torches, tinder box, 12 iron spikes, small hammer

Nothing else is necessary. Everything else is to be ruled by the DM. If the DM happens to use the various tables presented in the rule books, so be it; they're known to work well. There is nothing sacred in using the presented attack and save tables, for instance. Everything else one might consider "essential" to the game is simply a function of something presented above. (For instance, "level" is just a representation of approximately how many experience points the character has. Armor class is just an index number for the degree of protection from normal attacks the character has.)
i don't think MM was stating that the given tables are essential - just the concept of them. At least that's how I interpreted it.
"The 'sanctity' of the game is always, under all circumstances, secondary to friendships. The game is just there as a way to pass time, eat unhealthily and drink brews with friends. To think it has any deeper meaning or relevance is quite darn ludicrous." - Saunatonttu
"Evil - the clue's in the name™" - Nagora
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by talysman »

Stormcrow wrote:
The Essential D&D Mechanics
What tripe. Here's a complete D&D character:

Str 8; Int 9; Wis 8; Dex 13; Con 13; Cha 4
Neutral Thief
HP 4; XP 0
GP 50
Leather armor, dagger, thieves' tools, large sack, backpack, 6 torches, tinder box, 12 iron spikes, small hammer

Nothing else is necessary. Everything else is to be ruled by the DM. If the DM happens to use the various tables presented in the rule books, so be it; they're known to work well. There is nothing sacred in using the presented attack and save tables, for instance. Everything else one might consider "essential" to the game is simply a function of something presented above. (For instance, "level" is just a representation of approximately how many experience points the character has. Armor class is just an index number for the degree of protection from normal attacks the character has.)
I'd replace HP with HD and drop experience as necessary. If "level" is just a representation of experience, "experience" is just a representation of when you get another hit die, and "hp" is just a particular instance of HD. Some groups, especially back in the day, reroll all HD when a character levels up; making HP more core than HD doesn't allow that behavior to be represented.

Also, HD can be used to gauge fighting ability, saving throws, and magic ability, even in the absence of level or experience. Dropping experience also allows you to play with house rules like random advancement or advancing ever couple adventures (or whenever the GM thinks you've advanced.)
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Snorri »

Inreresting list. Just have a look on SotU (http://sites.google.com/site/wizardinab ... he-unknown). It's more restrictive even as your list, and few people argued it wasn't D&D feel - even if some features were missing,. The interesting point is in the 10 or more RPG's based on SotU, most features came back. Have a look on the more developped one: http://tempora-mutantur-rpg.blogspot.com/
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Stormcrow »

talysman wrote:I'd replace HP with HD and drop experience as necessary. If "level" is just a representation of experience, "experience" is just a representation of when you get another hit die, and "hp" is just a particular instance of HD.
No. Using your XP and class, you can look up your level, and knowing your level, you can look up your hit dice. Level and hit dice are functions of XP and class, not vice-versa.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by talysman »

Stormcrow wrote:
talysman wrote:I'd replace HP with HD and drop experience as necessary. If "level" is just a representation of experience, "experience" is just a representation of when you get another hit die, and "hp" is just a particular instance of HD.
No. Using your XP and class, you can look up your level, and knowing your level, you can look up your hit dice. Level and hit dice are functions of XP and class, not vice-versa.
No, because hit dice came first. Experience was added later, and, as mentioned, house rules existed right from the start to get rid of it entirely.

Edit: I should also add that experience is really based on treasure -- Gold, in your example. You need 2,000 GP to get to 2nd level as a Fighter. You can trade 1 HD worth of kills in combat for the equivalent of 100 GP. XP are thus unnecessary.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Mak »

Morlin wrote:This seems like as good a place as any to post a link to this gem from long ago...

http://www.risusmonkey.com/2011/06/ryth ... -1977.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for posting this link!

Hehe, had a chuckle looking at mortality rates in the "Expedition Reports" beginning on p. 9:

"group of 12, losing about 5" <----- "about"? Isn't death an either/or kinda thing?
"group of 14, of whom 6 did not return"
"7 players, losing 2" <----- I hope "characters" was meant here
"14, 5 died"

Character life sure was cheap in 1970s D&D.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Oedipussy Rex »

Mak wrote:Character life sure was cheap in 1970s D&D.
You don't know, man. You weren't there.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Mak »

Oedipussy Rex wrote:
Mak wrote:Character life sure was cheap in 1970s D&D.
You don't know, man. You weren't there.
Never said I was. I was drawing that conclusion based upon the mortality reported by a group of players from the late 1970s and preserved in a document of that era. You think that was an unfounded assertion? Go ahead and explain why.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Deodanth »

D&D R&D, via Mike Mearls wrote:The basic idea was to make a list of mechanics that, if any one of them were missing, you’d feel like you weren’t playing D&D.
I'm in the crowd who identify with this as a manifesto for old school, and am likewise intrigued by Mearl's motives in publishing it. Notably the current edition of D&D still follows most of these criteria, but arguably falls short in at least four of them (AC, saving throws, class delineation, and vancianism).

Alignment will always be a hot-button no matter what the edition.
Turanil wrote:Another essential D&D mechanic is 3-core-books-only, that is incompatible with essential WotC mechanic of selling hundreds of different book. As such, I think that Mearl's attempt toward D&D are useless...
I would not call that a mechanic per se. I would also point out that every edition has both met the "3 core book" criterion and exceeded it, with the exception of the various "Basic" sets. WotC are by no means the first to publish supplements for D&D.
Mak wrote:
Oedipussy Rex wrote:You don't know, man. You weren't there.
Never said I was. I was drawing that conclusion based upon the mortality reported by a group of players from the late 1970s and preserved in a document of that era.
It does read like an old military casualty report, doesn't it? Rather dry, but with bits of humor thrown in here and there. One is left to imagine how the sessions played out and how much the players identified with their characters (or conversely, felt "life was cheap"). From my recollection of late 70s OD&D sessions, the death ratio in these records is about right.

What interests me more about the Ryth Chronicle is its rock-solid conformity with familiar elements of OD&D, punctuated by occasional departures.

Example: does anyone know what an "elven rope" is? (p.12 of the PDF, listed as a magic item of Jabbar the elf.)
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Saunatonttu »

*implodes*
:beers:
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Turanil »

Deodanth wrote:Mearl's motives
Turanil wrote:Another essential D&D mechanic is 3-core-books-only, that is incompatible with essential WotC mechanic of selling hundreds of different book. As such, I think that Mearl's attempt toward D&D are useless...
I would not call that a mechanic per se. I would also point out that every edition has both met the "3 core book" criterion and exceeded it, with the exception of the various "Basic" sets. WotC are by no means the first to publish supplements for D&D.
You are right. I am off topic. I thought that Mearl and WotC are trying to again re-invent the (D&D) wheel for 5e. Their only search is for the money, and I believe they are bothered by all this old school crowd publishing their own game with the srd, and not giving WotC their money. Hence this pitiful article and survey attempt. However, IMO they will never understand.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Oedipussy Rex »

Mak wrote:
Oedipussy Rex wrote:
Mak wrote:Character life sure was cheap in 1970s D&D.
You don't know, man. You weren't there.
Never said I was. I was drawing that conclusion based upon the mortality reported by a group of players from the late 1970s and preserved in a document of that era. You think that was an unfounded assertion? Go ahead and explain why.
It's a Viet Nam allusion.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by fjw70 »

Turanil wrote:
Deodanth wrote:Mearl's motives
Turanil wrote:Another essential D&D mechanic is 3-core-books-only, that is incompatible with essential WotC mechanic of selling hundreds of different book. As such, I think that Mearl's attempt toward D&D are useless...
I would not call that a mechanic per se. I would also point out that every edition has both met the "3 core book" criterion and exceeded it, with the exception of the various "Basic" sets. WotC are by no means the first to publish supplements for D&D.
You are right. I am off topic. I thought that Mearl and WotC are trying to again re-invent the (D&D) wheel for 5e. Their only search is for the money, and I believe they are bothered by all this old school crowd publishing their own game with the srd, and not giving WotC their money. Hence this pitiful article and survey attempt. However, IMO they will never understand.
Heavan forbid a buisness try to make money. I am sure Mr. Gygax never made a dime off D&D.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by fjw70 »

Zaxon wrote:Now as you read this remember this was a survey he sent to D&D R&D. I ask, why send this to R&D? Hmmmmmmm?
Mike is in charge of R&D. That is probably why.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by bargle »

Oedipussy Rex wrote:
Mak wrote:
Oedipussy Rex wrote:
Mak wrote:Character life sure was cheap in 1970s D&D.
You don't know, man. You weren't there.
Never said I was. I was drawing that conclusion based upon the mortality reported by a group of players from the late 1970s and preserved in a document of that era. You think that was an unfounded assertion? Go ahead and explain why.
It's a Viet Nam allusion.
I thought it was funny. Jokes are hard on the internetz.
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Zaxon »

fjw70 wrote:
Zaxon wrote:Now as you read this remember this was a survey he sent to D&D R&D. I ask, why send this to R&D? Hmmmmmmm?
Mike is in charge of R&D. That is probably why.
So, he just asks random crap to write an article? I think not.

And he's why....

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... eaves_WotC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bill S. has been shown the door at WotC.

I'll predict it now. 5e released between May - August 2013. It will be a BIG tip of the hat to old school D&D.
How years ago in days of old
When magic filled the air,
Twas in the darkest depths of Mordor
I met a girl so fair,
But Gollum, and the Evil One crept up
And slipped away with her.

- Ramble On, Led Zeppelin
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Re: The Essential D&D Mechanics

Post by Kyrel »

Matthew- wrote:
Morlin wrote: This seems like as good a place as any to post a link to this gem from long ago...

http://www.risusmonkey.com/2011/06/ryth ... -1977.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And to think I was planning on turning in early tonight... :lol:
Indeed. Great little document. :D
No joke. This is freakin' sweet! :bigthumbsup:
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