[C&C] Fighting Styles: options for fighters

[Akrasia]

The 'combat dominance' ability of fighters is rather weak and flavourless IMO. So I am planning on introducing the following four 'fighting styles' that fighters can choose at 4th level as a house rule. Please let me know what you think about them!

Fighting Styles

At fourth level a fighter can choose one of the following four 'styles'. The fighter gains additional benefits at 7th level based on the style in question. Some of these styles work in conjunction with the 'extra attack' ability fighters get at 10th level.

(a.) Aragorn. At 4th level the fighter can fight with two weapons with only a -1 penalty to each attack, so long as his 'off-hand' weapon is a 'small' weapon (i.e. short sword or smaller), and the fighter is wearing 'light' armour (chain shirt or lighter). At 7th level the fighter can move up to a jog and attack without penalty, or attack and withdraw from combat (up to a normal move only, not a jog) without penalty. Also at 7th the fighter gains a +1 bonus to his AC if he is wearing 'light' armour. A fighter using two weapons can attack three times at level 10 (once with his primary weapon without penalty, and once with both his primary and secondary weapons with a -1 penalty). The fighter must have dexterity as a prime in order to choose this fighting style.

(b.) Boromir. At 4th level the fighter gains the 'combat dominance' special ability. Combat dominance gives the fighter an extra attack with any weapon when fighting opponents with 1 HD (and the HD must a d6 or less). In order to use this ability, the fighter must direct all attacks in a combat round toward opponents that meet these criteria. The fighter can split the available attacks among qualified opponents as desired. This ability improves as the fighter progresses in levels (he gains an additional attack for every four levels after 4th level, so an 8th level fighter is allowed a total of 3 such attacks, etc.). At 7th level the opponent HD increases to a d10 (i.e. at 8th level the fighter can make 3 attacks against opponents with 1d10 HD or less in a single round, and at 12th level he can make 4 attacks against opponents with 1d10 HD or less, etc.). At 10th level the fighter gains an extra attack per round, but this ability cannot be used in conjunction with the fighter's 'combat dominance' ability.

(c.) Gimli. At 4th level the fighter can 'cleave': if the fighter fells one opponent in melee, he gets one free attack on an adjacent opponent (an opponent that is within the 'reach' of his weapon, and whom he can attack without moving). At 7th level the fighter can 'great cleave': i.e., the fighter can cleave up to four opponents (if he fells one opponent, he gets a free attack; if he fells that second opponent, he gets another free attack; if he fells that third opponent, he gets a free attack on a fourth and final opponent.) The character must be using a two handed weapon or wielding a one handed weapon (if feasable, like a battle axe) two handed. 'Cleave' and 'great cleave' can only be used with slashing or blunt weapons, not piercing weapons. At 10th level the fighter can attack twice per round, but only the first attack can use the 'cleave' or 'great cleave' ability.

(d.) Legolas. At 4th level the fighter can 'rapid fire': i.e., attack with a bow twice per round with a -1 penalty to each attack. The fighter can also fire into melee without penalty, and with no chance of hitting an ally. Both of these abilities cannot be used at the same time (i.e. the fighter cannot fire twice into melee). At 7th level the fighter can complete a full move and fire his bow with no penalty (but can fire only once). Also at 7th level, the fighter suffers no penalty using his bow in close quarters (even when in combat with an opponent who is using a melee weapon). At 10th level the fighter's 'rapid fire' ability enables him to fire three times per round with a -1 penalty, or fire twice per round with no penalty. The fighter must have dexterity as a prime in order to choose this fighting style.

Edited to include additional restrictions on (c.).

[Jhulae]

Looks good!

I'd also say that maybe with style C: Gimli, that the character should also be using a two handed weapon or wielding a one handed weapon (if feasable, like a battle axe) two handed. I'd even say it should be limited to slashing or blunt weapons (weapons that are swung) rather than piercing weapons (that are thrusted).

Now to come up with more 'generic' names than LotR character names.

But, yes, I agree that combat dominance is a little.. meh.. as an ability and there should be more choices.

Maybe something for the CKG?

[Tular Oakenshield]

I like the idea.
Now, what about something similar to the "Weapon Mastery" style from the AD&D Skills and Powers book? I really liked how a character could become more powerful through skill as opposed to just brute strength. Your thoughts?

[J_Elric_smith]

very nice, a little tweaking here and there for personal preference but I liek the idea
ken

[Jackal]

I think that's a really good option actually and that you should get it into the CKG forum on the Troll boards. If you don't have access to that forum and would like it posted there let me know and I'll be happy to post it (along with your credit of course).

[Scott]

One quick point...

The combat dominance ability really won't come in to play very often, and is much more a flavor element I think (remember it only works against 1HD types with a d6 or less HD type).

So, for the above to be balanced relative to each other, either combat dominance needs to be beefed up, or the others need to cut back a bit.

I like the idea in general though.

EDIT: Ooops! Just noticed that you did beef up CD a bit--have to look at it more closely when I get home.

[Akrasia]

... I'd also say that maybe with style C: Gimli, that the character should also be using a two handed weapon or wielding a one handed weapon (if feasable, like a battle axe) two handed. I'd even say it should be limited to slashing or blunt weapons (weapons that are swung) rather than piercing weapons (that are thrusted). ..

Good ideas -- I'll edit the original post to include them.

[gideon_thorne]

Hell. Im just importing the weapons mastery/styles system from the RC, with some modification.

[JRRNeiklot]

Alternate Fighter Class

Class Level Base Attack Bonus Special


1st +1 Weapon Specialization
2nd +2
3rd +3
4th +4
5th +5 Weapon Mastery
6th +6
7th +7
8th +8
9th +9 High Mastery
10th +10
11th +11
12th +12 Grand Mastery
13th +13
14th +14
15th +15 2nd Weapon
16th +16
17th +17
18th +18 3rd Weapon
19th +19
20th +20

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d10.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields, including tower shields.


Weapon Specialization: A fighter gains +1 to hit and +2 to damage with one weapon of his choice.

Weapon Mastery: The fighter gains an additional +1 to attack and damage with his chosen weapon.

High Mastery: The fighter gains an additional +1 to hit and damage with his weapon of choice.

Grand Mastery: The damage dice of the fighter’s weapon of choice increases one step. For example, a broad sword does 2d4 damage, but in the hands of a grandmaster, it woud do 2d6. A weapon with a d12 damage die does 2d8 instead.

2nd Weapon: The fighter gains a 2nd weapon that he may apply all his specialization too.

3rd Weapon: The fighter gains a 3rd weapon that he may apply all his specialization too.


I also give all warriors extra attacks ala 1e.

[Akrasia]

Sorry I missed this the first time, Jackal.

I think that's a really good option actually and that you should get it into the CKG forum on the Troll boards. If you don't have access to that forum and would like it posted there let me know and I'll be happy to post it (along with your credit of course).

By all means do so!

I am ambivalent about signing the NDA. While I would like to take part in the discussions, and thereby perhaps influence the final product, I also like the idea of maintaining a certain critical distance, so I can express my views about the game (e.g. in a review) without any "conflict of interest".

[Akrasia]

Hell. Im just importing the weapons mastery/styles system from the RC, with some modification.

Cool idea, Gideon. But for some reason, that was one aspect of the RC that I could never get into 100 percent. Or rather, it frustrated me in the same way that 3E combat feats do. They seemed to require so much work for me, as a DM, to ensure that NPCs used them effectively. And all the little symbols were annoying. Still, when I was a PLAYER, I really liked them. When I used to use the RC to run games, I let players use them, and I would use them for only special NPCs.

But yeah, anything from the RC pretty much automatically gets a thumbs up IMO. (Except the art, which is only so-so IMO. Your stuff is better, Gideon_Thorne! )

[Roadkil]

The 'combat dominance' ability of fighters is rather weak and flavourless IMO. So I am planning on introducing the following four 'fighting styles' that fighters can choose at 4th level as a house rule. Please let me know what you think about them!

Fighting Styles

At fourth level a fighter can choose one of the following four 'styles'. The fighter gains additional benefits at 7th level based on the style in question. Some of these styles work in conjunction with the 'extra attack' ability fighters get at 10th level.

(a.) Aragorn. At 4th level the fighter can fight with two weapons with only a -1 penalty to each attack, so long as his 'off-hand' weapon is a 'small' weapon (i.e. short sword or smaller), and the fighter is wearing 'light' armour (chain shirt or lighter). At 7th level the fighter can move up to a jog and attack without penalty, or attack and withdraw from combat (up to a normal move only, not a jog) without penalty. Also at 7th the fighter gains a +1 bonus to his AC if he is wearing 'light' armour. A fighter using two weapons can attack three times at level 10 (once with his primary weapon without penalty, and once with both his primary and secondary weapons with a -1 penalty). The fighter must have dexterity as a prime in order to choose this fighting style.

(b.) Boromir. At 4th level the fighter gains the 'combat dominance' special ability. Combat dominance gives the fighter an extra attack with any weapon when fighting opponents with 1 HD (and the HD must a d6 or less). In order to use this ability, the fighter must direct all attacks in a combat round toward opponents that meet these criteria. The fighter can split the available attacks among qualified opponents as desired. This ability improves as the fighter progresses in levels (he gains an additional attack for every four levels after 4th level, so an 8th level fighter is allowed a total of 3 such attacks, etc.). At 7th level the opponent HD increases to a d10 (i.e. at 8th level the fighter can make 3 attacks against opponents with 1d10 HD or less in a single round, and at 12th level he can make 4 attacks against opponents with 1d10 HD or less, etc.). At 10th level the fighter gains an extra attack per round, but this ability cannot be used in conjunction with the fighter's 'combat dominance' ability.

(c.) Gimli. At 4th level the fighter can 'cleave': if the fighter fells one opponent in melee, he gets one free attack on an adjacent opponent (an opponent that is within the 'reach' of his weapon, and whom he can attack without moving). At 7th level the fighter can 'great cleave': i.e., the fighter can cleave up to four opponents (if he fells one opponent, he gets a free attack; if he fells that second opponent, he gets another free attack; if he fells that third opponent, he gets a free attack on a fourth and final opponent.) The character must be using a two handed weapon or wielding a one handed weapon (if feasable, like a battle axe) two handed. 'Cleave' and 'great cleave' can only be used with slashing or blunt weapons, not piercing weapons. At 10th level the fighter can attack twice per round, but only the first attack can use the 'cleave' or 'great cleave' ability.

(d.) Legolas. At 4th level the fighter can 'rapid fire': i.e., attack with a bow twice per round with a -1 penalty to each attack. The fighter can also fire into melee without penalty, and with no chance of hitting an ally. Both of these abilities cannot be used at the same time (i.e. the fighter cannot fire twice into melee). At 7th level the fighter can complete a full move and fire his bow with no penalty (but can fire only once). Also at 7th level, the fighter suffers no penalty using his bow in close quarters (even when in combat with an opponent who is using a melee weapon). At 10th level the fighter's 'rapid fire' ability enables him to fire three times per round with a -1 penalty, or fire twice per round with no penalty. The fighter must have dexterity as a prime in order to choose this fighting style.

Edited to include additional restrictions on (c.).

great idea, will be using this in my game. THANKS!

[Plunderer of the Planes]

Very nice. I may be using this as an option.

[iamtim]

Do you mind if I copy this over to the C&C Wiki I just setup?

http://castlesandcrusades.editme.com

Tim.

[Jackal]

I still want to know if you want it posted in the CKG forum for possible use?

[Akrasia]

I still want to know if you want it posted in the CKG forum for possible use?

Yes, go ahead.

[Akrasia]

Do you mind if I copy this over to the C&C Wiki I just setup?

http://castlesandcrusades.editme.com

Tim.

Go ahead -- sounds cool!

[Jackal]

Thanks and will do...with your credit of course.

[Irda Ranger]

Akrasia,

I have adopted three of these for the house rules I am setting up now, and given them new names. Thanks for the inspiration!

PS - Sorry for the name thiefery.

EDIT: Forgot the link.

http://akrasia.yuku.com/forum/view/id/56

[Maliki]

Thanks for raising this thread up from the dead , looking over it again I like this idea, and will probably add these to my next campaign. Adding a sword and shield style (that I will have to work on.)

[baran_i_kanu]

I adapted my version of Akrasia's fighting styles for my game a few months ago.

First, thank you to Akrasia for creating the original styles.
They have really helped excite things in combat. My players are really looking forward to getting that little zing they bring to a character's fighting.

After a bit I decided to change things around to fit my own personal and game style. I simplified some things and complicated others.

Here is what I have rearranged:
I renamed the abilities because although I love LOtR I was distracted by the names.
I dropping the "Boromir" ability as I have kept combat dominance.
I added two new options for single weapon fighters and shield fighters.
I allowed most classes to take an ability, based on class. (This is the complication of the rules I mentioned above. It is a tiny bit more paperwork but I feel it is worth it to help flesh out a character's combat abilities and feel, like the Weapon Mastery rules from the RC, but much-much simpler.)
I simplified the abilities by allowing only the 4th level bonus and dropping the 7th and 10th level bonus in Akrasia's originals. This made the styles less useful in the long run but i only want a bit of simple flavor in my game, not more to remember. Especially since I allowed many more classes than fighter access to these styles.

So here's my version....

Fighting Styles
(based on Akrasia’s fighting styles.)
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... ter+styles

At 4th level characters can choose one of the following four 'styles'. Each style is limited to certain classes (optional classes are categorized by the CK).

Fighters....Some of these styles work in conjunction with the 'extra attack' ability fighters get at 10th level.

(a.) Archer.......Barbarian, Druid, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue.
At 4th level the character can 'rapid fire': i.e., attack with a bow twice per round with a -1 penalty to each attack. The character can also fire into melee with only no penalty, but there is still a chance of hitting an ally if the attack misses.
The character must have dexterity as a prime in order to choose this fighting style.

(b.) Dervish.......Barbarian, Fighter, Knight, Paladin.
At 4th level the character can 'cleave': if the character fells one opponent in melee, he gets one free attack on an adjacent opponent (an opponent that is within the 'reach' of his weapon, and whom he can attack without moving).
The character must be using a medium sized weapon to use this ability. (Not with dagger!)
Dervish can only be used with slashing or blunt weapons, not piercing weapons.

At 10th level the Fighter can attack twice per round, but only the first attack can use the 'cleave' or 'great cleave' ability.

c.) Duelist.......Assassin, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Fighter, Knight, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue.
At 4th level the character chooses one melee weapon (example: broadsword, rapier, mace, battle-axe, dagger, etc.) and masters the art of one-on-one combat with it.
The when the character uses the weapon without a shield and without a second weapon he gains a +1 to hit/damage (stacks with specialization for fighters), and a +1 to AC versus a single opponent designated by the player at the beginning of the round..

d.) Shield Fighter.......Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Knight.
At 4th level the character gains +2 to AC with a shield instead of the normal +1. The number of foes defended against is doubled for the shield type used.

e.) Two Weapon Fighter.......Assassin, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Fighter, Knight, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue.
At 4th level the character can fight with two weapons with only a -1 penalty to each attack, so long as his 'off-hand' weapon is a 'small' weapon (i.e. short sword or smaller) or -2 to each attack if the "off-hand" is a medium weapon .
The character must be wearing 'light' armour (chain shirt or lighter) to use this style.
The character must have dexterity as a prime in order to choose this fighting style.

Multiclassing
The required 4th level is total character level. The character's main class, used to determine which styles he qualifies for, is based on what class he has the most levels in when he reaches 4th level. If two classes are of equal level the PC/NPC picks one as his class to choose a style.
To Clarify: character’s may only ever choose ONE fighting style (at total character level 4.)


So has anyone else modified Akrasia's styles for their own tastes and games?

What have you done?

I'm curious to see other single weapon and shield styles in Akrasia's original 4-7-10 level steps. Perhaps an increase in attack defense bonus or damage? How to work in with and around weapon specialization for fighters?


Thanks again to Akrasia.


dave

[Maliki]

Still working on the styles for my game (stealing little bits from various others), but when I get them all worked out, I'll post them here.

[Akrasia]

Interesting system, baran_i_kanu!

I'm curious, though, how you keep fighters 'special', given that many different classes can choose from the combat styles. Is it by retaining the 'combat dominance' ability for all fighters?

[Akrasia]

Akrasia,

I have adopted three of these for the house rules I am setting up now, and given them new names. Thanks for the inspiration!

PS - Sorry for the name thiefery.

EDIT: Forgot the link.

http://akrasia.yuku.com/forum/view/id/56

I'm glad that you liked my idea!

I've been pleasantly surprised by the number of people who like & use (some version of) the 'weapon styles' option.

[baran_i_kanu]

Akrasia,

yep, they do retain combat dominance and their other Official abilities.

i should clarify: the Fighting Styles for all classes is an experiment for now.

later campaigns may drop this, especially if it does overshadow the fighter in combat, but i don't think it will.

with the fighter's better chance to hit, boosted with weapon specialization, and the extra attack later on he will still retain his usefullness within the party. the extras in the Fighting Styles will only make him even more combat savvy along with everyone else.
that's the hope anyway.

as for Wanting to spice up the combat abilties for some of the other classes......i should note that i am a SWORD & sorcery DM.
i'm an old school R.E. Howard fan and i've always enjoyed personal combat over spells.
that's just how i think.

i'm not very innovative with the magic system, never have been. i think that's part of the reason i have loved Basic/RC so much, the simplicity of classes AND the simple basic lists of spells to make do with.
i've never written a spell for any version of the game, just used what's in the books.
when i play it's usually a fighter or, if healing is necessary, a cleric. and yeah i play them as medics with maces.

i've, obviously, never been big on utilizing magic in my games, i make items less common then most base treasure lists and they are are, IMHO, more memorable.
no large magical shops with dozens of available items, just an occassional rare former adventuring NPC wizard or scholar who has managed to collect or write a scroll or two, perhaps even a ring or other minor item.
i do use spellcasting NPC's although i don't have him loaded with all sorts of contingency spells. lot's of fireball and lightning. consequently my PC's feel very special and competent as they are the primary source of magic in most campaigns. they really wow the commoners.

i will admit: i focus most of my combats on sword-play, maneuvers, etc. and that's probably a fault but it is my normal style of play.
i have to make up for the de-emphasis on magical combat with vivid and visceral descriptions, "varnishing the deck with brains" and all of that to help keep it spicy.
but man, when the PC or NPC breaks out spells it gets some attention.
and, once again, the spellcasters feel extra-special about it.

i realllly want to run a Hyborian C&C game. i think i would pull the Howardian flavor nicely.

wow, that was longer than i meant. well now we know why i want to beef up the fighter and most of the other classes iin combat.

later,

dave

[Maliki]

A few finishing touches and I should be posting my versions shortly.

[baran_i_kanu]

Cool Maliki!
I'm looking forward to seeing your version. Especially when I swipe better ideas for my own.


I was considering dropping Cleave from mine. No one in my little group has an interest in it and I really never liked the Cleave feat, it kinda feels out of place here in C&C. But I will leave it on my houserules here in case someone decides they realllllllllly wanna kill a bunch of low-level beings.

[Maliki]

Ok here goes, along with one other from my group here are three of the six "fighting styles" or alternate fighter skill sets that we have come up with. One is chosen at first level and they replace the fighter abilities listed in the PHB.

Standard

1st Combat Dominance (*Detailed below)
4th Weapon Specialization (+1 hit/damage with a chosen weapon)
7th Weapon Mastery (Bonus rises to +2 hit/damage with chosen weapon)
10th Extra Attack (May attack twice per round)

*Combat Dominance

1st level 2 attacks per round verses creatures with 1d6 HD or less
4th level 3 attacks per round verses creatures with 1d6 HD or less
8th level 3 attacks per round verses creatures with 1d8 HD or less
12th level 4 attacks per round verses creatures with 2d8 HD or less


Two Handed Weapon Style

1st Cleave
4th Weapon Specialization
7th Mighty Swing (Fighter gains double his strength bonus to damage rolls with a two handed weapon)
10th Extra Attack


Single Weapon Style

1st +2 to initiative rolls
4th Weapon Specialization
7th +2 to AC
10th Extra Attack

In the three styles above we delayed weapon specialization until 4th level to give the character a chance to develop, before choosing a weapon.

[Maliki]

And the other three.

Sword/Shield style

1st +1 AC (above the normal +1 for the use of a shield)
4th Weapon Specialization
7th +1 AC (an additional +1 AC)
10th Extra Attack


Weapon Mastery

1st Weapon Specialization (+1/+1 with a chosen weapon)
4th Weapon Mastery (bonus rises to +2/+2)
7th Weapon Grand Mastery (bonus rise to +3/+3)
10th Extra Attack


Two Weapon Style

1st Penalty for fighting with two weapons drop to -3/-3
4th Penalty drops to -1/-1
7th Fighter may fight with weapons of equal size in each hand
10th Double Attack After attacking once with each weapon, the fighter makes one additional attack with both weapons, if he hits damage is rolled for both weapons, if its a miss, both weapons miss.

[Akrasia]

Those look really good, Maliki!